Given how much talk there is on this figured its time for its own thread.
K, this next bit talks mostly about energy weapons (get to novas in a bit):
IMO, a BS should easily pwn a fighter with its higher power weapons (ie. a razor hit should vaporize a fighter in a one or two shots). At the sametime, a fighter should be able to easily dodge heavy BS fire. So in the end a BS vs fighter gunfight should end up likely a draw. The BS so strong the fighter has a very hard time defeating it. The fighter able to dodge and out manueveur the BS's fire.
Thus for a BS to defeat the fighter it would have to use weapons specifically designed to target fighters. At the same time those weapons would be next to useless against another BS. (Ie. relate weapon energy to speed, a fast weapon for hitting fighters would use little energy and have reduced damage)
Now a fighter equiped with novas should be a capship's nightmare, but only if the BS looses its shields. My thinking is that a single fighter shouldn't be able to take out a BS. It should maybe be able to take out either the armor or shields but not both. A bomber maybe by using an inferno and novas. Two fighters, one with an inferno the other with novas should be very scary to a BS.
And for those worried that fighters would not be used since BS are so strong. Fighters will never be obsolete since their manueverability makes them much better for killing other fighters than a BS. Not to mention its more fun dog fighting in a fighter than being spun in a BS.
K, think that's enough to get something started, lol. Lets try to keep things constructive.
It should take 4 fighters (2 with infernos, 2 with novas) to scare a BS.
It actually wouldn't end in a draw as eventually the BS will hit the fighter. But that will take so much time the fighter can get away or wait for help.
It should take 2 fighters to take out either hull or shield not just one for 1 of those things. Making a total of 4 fighters required.
And yes, fighters will not be obsolete because of their usefulness in a fight. Whether it can't do damage alone its still deadly to a BS if your fighting a BS and a fighter. Fighter can either help take down the hull extremely quickly with tizonas and let the BS hammer down its hull or the opposite, wait until the shield is down and start hammering it with torpedos. Resulting in its hull going down fast.
Now for Nova bashing. Nova should have damage just above that of a sunslayer but with is normal explosion radius so its effective against immune zones. That way novas aren't the end of the world when one hits you but when enough do your dead. But it should take alot of torpedos to take down a battleship anyway.
I'll be available to test new BSs if anyone wants. BSs should be strong enough that not even I, who focuses on killing capships, can take one down on my own.
The Battleship (In most Sci-Fi things) are gigantic mobile fortresses. So, the Battleship should be designed like that; Many large cannons for pounding other large ships, and some smaller ones for dealing with fighters. However, when it comes to fighters the Battleship mainly relies on it's heavy shielding and armor.
As such, the Gunboat could fill the role of Anti-Fighter. It has a good number of turrets, it's fairly agile, and it has a stronger shield to shrug off fighter weapons, at least for a time. The Gunboat is basicly a support ship here, providing a bit of extra firepower or cover where it's needed.
The Cruiser is, in it's most basic form, a middle-ground between battleship and gunboat. More manuverable then a Battleship, yet less then a gunboat. Less firepower then a battleship, yet more then a gunboat. Basicly, the Cruiser should be able to go toe-to-toe with other cruisers, fight off gunboats, and able to nab fighters as well. It would still take a pair of cruisers to take down a battleship, but the cruiser can go where the battleship can't, so it even's out.
For fighters, you essentially have three classes; Light, Heavy, and Bomber.
Light fighters are mainly for recon, and harrying enemy supply ships/routes. They can also take on other fighters, but it would take a few of them because they lack the weapons their larger breathen posess.
Heavy fighters are your basic combat ships. They are good at dog-fighting other fighters, and can be a danger to larger ships in groups.
Bombers are fairly self-explanitory. They swoop in while shields are down and pound larger ships into scrap. That is, a bomber wing can swoop in. A lone bomber, while a threat if left un-attended, can't do much all by itself.
*These views are expressed be me, and me alone. If you don't like 'em, tough. :P*
This is the real true story of rock and roll; it was not about anything more then, how to live your life, as a gangster, in sartorial splendor, and turning the world into a place where normality would never return again...- Malcolm McLaren
I almost agree with Firebird's idea, only don't forget we're still talking Battleships. In my opinion, Dab is probably closer to the right numbers, 4 fully loaded heavy duty fighters should be capable of bringing down a Battleship. It's the Cruiser class I'm worried about, as they should also be able to withstand multiple fighters whereas at the moment they're heavily troubled by a single decent fighter pilot.
In my opinion, Cruisers should be able to fight and draw with 2 fighters, and finally Gunboats to lose to multiple fighters, but trump them fairly easily in one on one.
I'll be annoyed if all I see online is Battleships though >:0)
Maybe... But, I have to disagree there. Thing is, a RH Bomber, with like 4 Tizonas/Colattas and two novas can be used as a BS Destroyer for faction battles. if you have 2 or 3 of those, and 2 battleships with Flaks... it would be kind of interesting.
Fighter Light - 8
Fighter Heavy - 6
Fighter Very Heavy - 4
Bombers - 3
Cruisers - 2
GB - 4
BS -1
To take down a cruiser
Fighter Light - 6
Fighter Heavy - 4
Fighter Very Heavy - 3
Bombers - 2
Cruisers - 1
GB - 2
BS -1
To take down a GB
Fighter Light - 4
Fighter Heavy - 3
Fighter Very Heavy - 2
Bombers - 1
Cruisers - 1
GB - 1
BS -1
To take down a Bomber
Fighter Light - 3
Fighter Heavy - 2
Fighter Very Heavy - 1
Bombers - 1
Cruisers - 1
GB - 1
BS -1
To take down a Very Heavy Fighter
Fighter Light - 3
Fighter Heavy - 2
Fighter Very Heavy - 1
Bombers - 1
Cruisers - 1
GB - 1
BS -1
To take down Heavy Fighter
Fighter Light - 2
Fighter Heavy - 1
Fighter Very Heavy - 1
Bombers - 1
Cruisers - 1
GB - 1
BS -1
To take down Light Fighter
Fighter Light - 1
Fighter Heavy - 1
Fighter Very Heavy - 1
Bombers - 1
Cruisers - 1
GB - 1
BS -1
This is just my idea though I think I balanced it out correctly.
Been here since Discovery 4.77 (lurk mode engaged)
Zapp Wrote:I have recently met and discussed with Atalawohisdi the trader that flies the Caribe. Just so everyone knows, I engaged in Sigma 13. He flies through half the system before going back to New Berlin, where he cruises from one side of the system to the other, hugging the sun as close as he can. All the while, he flies near Battleships trying to scrape me off. I finally send out the white flag, and move back to Sigma 13. However, it was a ruse, and he bit. Knowing his trade route, I interdicted the trade lane and the chase began anew. It ended, an hour after it began, with me retreating, out of Countermeasures and getting very irritated.
He kept boasting how he has never been caught; I'd like to see him beat until he begs to pay, then beaten some more.
I agree with you firebird, but i think kane and dab are closer to the right numbers too.
We need a turret like the corsair BS turret but with more damage per shot (2x or maybe 2.5 - 3x) and longer range, as range of bs turrets is a problem because of the lenght of the BS itself..
Let me explain myself:
First, the focal point of the wepons (you know, the point where all shoots converge) is the maximum range of the active wep with the shortest range..
Also, the distance between turrets matter.
In vanilla FL distance between turrets wasnt important as ships were small and turrets were relatively close to each other. But now, with battleship almost 1000m long, that matters.
We have as example a BS all armed with turrets with 1200m range.
If you fire forward, the forward turrets will have the 1200m range but the rear one not, as shots have to pass the lenght of the BS, hence reducing its effective range.
So lets do the maths:
for a BS with a lenght of 700m, the effective distance of the turrets would be 1200m - 700m, = 500m. So all turrets (which are focused as i descrived above) will have a range of 500m.
So to compensate for this problem, BS weps need a longer range, so the battles can be done from a distance and not point blank.
According to my calculations, BS weps should have no less than 2k range to overcome this limitation.
the longest BS is still the RH BS, followed by the Battlestar Adv. (Unsure of the lenght of the nomad BS)
I measured them by stablishing 1 waypoint with my fighter at the bow of a rh bs, then i located my fighter right in the aft of the ship, and wrote down the distance between my fighter and the waypoint. Its not 100% accurate, but gives you an approximate lenght of a big ship.
(If you find any mistake in my English, please let me know via a PM)
(Really, I speak terrible English, so please, tell me if I make mistakes. I'd like to improve it a bit )
Ya, I agree with the different numbers proposed. The main point I wanted to stress was a single skilled fighter should not be able to win against a BS (at least not in a reasonable timeframe). It should be able to survive and maybe be a pest but that's about it (this assumes the pilot can dodge the BS's heavy weapons, if he can't game over in one shot). Same for a cruiser.
I'll just say that I agree with Kane, Korrd and Dab, it's really close to how things should be if possible.
If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor
Caribe your numbers for fighters doesn't work because 1 LF CAN defeat a VHF, thats its purpose, to kill other fighters. Plus fighters have different levels so you can't make an accurate graph of fighters vs. fighters. But it should take 4 times the amount of LFs than VHFs to take down a BS as they have no torp slot. Meaning no inferno and no nova. And they are lvl 9 guns only. So at least 16 LFs to take down a BS, thing is they are so agile the BS wouldn't have much of a chance of hitting one. Also a GB should be able to take on as many fighters as a cruiser as they were meant to do so. So its weapons would more easily destroy the fighters.