(03-16-2018, 04:53 PM)Reddy Wrote: The bullhead is one of the better BCs. Not all of the BC changes have gone according to plan as with other things in disco. Devs and other staff don't have a test server to test the changes, where they test is in game. The balance team isn't made of one person and they all have tested BC changes for god knows how long and have been adjusting BCs accordingly. BCs are not completely balanced yet but will be soon.
as for the speed, this data has been taken from Flstat and shows that all BCs have almost similar speed except the HFBC and nomad BC which are massive and need the turn rate.
In my personal experience fighting after Thunderer, Chills, Titan, Black smoke. BCs can't win against battleships, their role has been changed to hunt cruisers and provide utility support.
Looking at the stats on paper vs actually flying the ship are two very different methods of analysis. The numbers on paper might look good, but things looking good on paper are why there's random bases above and below plain in various systems that no one wants to fly to or make use of.
Without actually examining how the ships perform from a first person perspective, you can never really tell how it needs to be balanced. Lyth put it best: The Bullhead was average at best in terms of balance, because all of the other Battlecruisers were so underperforming it was ridiculous. One of the biggest issues with the Bullhead pre-change was that its center hitbox on the smaller-scaled model made it more difficult to hit. Now that it's scaled up, that isn't an issue anymore, as the center of the ship is a much larger target.
The one saving grace the Bullhead always had was that it could use its thin vertical profile to strafe fight. In any other situation, the Bullhead underperforms. Its side profile is massive, its armor is thin. It's a light battlecruiser and it's (i really wish i could swear here aaaa) huge. When you take away its traditional method of combat viability, you basically make the ship useless.
Maneuverability? Fly a Cruiser.
Firepower? Fly a Battleship.
The inbetween class isn't good. It's a scaled down Battleship with no interesting features or traits to attract interest from players.
(03-16-2018, 04:44 PM)Vendetta Wrote: It cannot possibly get any more simplified than this.
yeah seems bad, i thought you wanted Arc buff. I'll fix it
(03-16-2018, 04:31 PM)Vendetta Wrote: I do not want to have to sit and spend even more time on an already taxing game mechanic to get a slight advantage over other people. The idea of rewarding people for grinding out shield upgrades is already silly when shields are working just fine. There's already an armor upgrade system in place. The game doesn't need another system just like it for shields on top of it. That's just a waste of time.
i keep repeating myself, shield mods doesnt give advantage
It is up to your playstyle, it is a shield customization stuff
You'll have 3 choice
Fast Recharge Shields but Low Capacity
Standard Shields
High Capacity Shields but Slow Recharge Speed
Standard shields is your current ship shields, if you don't want to mount anything it is fine.
Should i rename this thread to Battlecruiser discussion?
The Bullhead is/was one of the better BCs because it's stats more closely matched its shape. The long-standing issue with BCs, which is slowly being corrected over time (hopefully), is that all their stats were practically the same, aside from armour, and the implementation of each BC wasn't done with much thought in regards to making them unique and different to each other balance/stats wise.
(03-16-2018, 04:44 PM)Vendetta Wrote: It cannot possibly get any more simplified than this.
yeah seems bad, i thought you wanted Arc buff. I'll fix it
Yeah I don't want the arcs buffed on the bullhead lmao. That'd be bad. I just want them to be put back so it can fight again the way it always did.
(03-16-2018, 05:00 PM)Titan* Wrote: i keep repeating myself, shield mods doesnt give advantage
It is up to your playstyle, it is a shield customization stuff
You'll have 3 choice
Fast Recharge Shields but Low Capacity
Standard Shields
High Capacity Shields but Slow Recharge Speed
Standard shields is your current ship shields, if you don't want to mount anything it is fine.
When it's more fleshed out, I'll look over it again. I'm of the mind that everything else should be done first before we add new mechanics and make FL's stuff more complicated than it needs to be, but that's just me.
Bullhead is exactly like the Thresher in 1 thing, arguably the most important one, and that is the ability to show its thin side against bigger ships and keep showing it throughout the entire fight. For the Bullhead specifically that means battleships only as they're the the only larger things than BCs but it still gives the Bullhead an unmatched advantage because it gives a noticeable survivability boost over everyone else. It's exactly like a Thresher is compared to say a Donau - the DPS a heavy cruiser has is less impactful than the survivability the Thresher has by only showing its thin side. A heavier battlecruiser, while doing a bit more damage, will dodge significantly less than the Bullhead, if flown right that is.
Constantly showing your thin side is not an easy task and requires a skilled pilot, something judging by your comments I doubt you are. Why? Because I also remember your posts about the Thresher being "bad" against other caps after I buffed its core, and that was before people realised it was overpowered and nerfed it to light again. Here're the links of that: 1. The Thresher is incapable of dodging nowadays - completely wrong and the ship was always the best against ships bigger than a cruiser. While it was medium it could solo most other cruisers as well because it could strafe and dodge most shots. People didn't expect or realise that until it was too late, but that was the status of the overpowered medium core thresher. 2. 3. 4. - Again completely wrong
And various links on the next few pages discussing the same thing over and over again - you trying to make an overpowered ship seem bad while it's the opposite. I'm not saying or thinking Bullhead is overpowered nor is this the topic about the Thresher so let's move on.
(03-16-2018, 04:31 PM)Vendetta Wrote: I'm someone who flew the Bullhead on a regular basis, and the idea that that slow turd could dodge anything when it was small was already ludicrous enough as it is. It's absolutely nothing like the Thresher, so I have no idea where you got that from. The Bullhead's weakness is and always has been its ridiculously slow turn radius and unusual 1 less thrust speed from a solid 120. It can't outrun other Battlecruisers over time, it can't turn to avoid them and never had the strafing speed, firepower or armor to hold their own against them.
All BCs used to have the same turn speed (11.22) while now it's less than half a degree difference (11.91 max - 11.54 min) and same thrust speed (119) so I've no idea where you're pulling this info from except your "feeling" of the ship, which says enough already. If we used our "feelings" towards balance the balance would be as nonexistent as it was in 4.85 and older versions. It was and still is next to impossible for one BC to outmanouver the other without you outmanouvering yourself by showing your fat side for instance. They all have the same strafe power so the fact that it's thinner enables it to be better than all other bcs at strafing as well.
I've yet to test Bullhead's arcs, and I'm not saying they don't need a buff/relocation, but what you wrote above contradicts with what the ship and caps in general actually are. The fact that you think other BCs thrust faster says enough on its own, there's too much "I think" and "I feel" instead of facts. Just because you fly a ship a lot doesn't mean you're good at it - if you keep repeating the same mistakes without anyone telling you how to fix them, you can fly the ship forever and still keep doing them. It was the case with the Thresher, and it sounds like it's the case with the Bullhead.
I'm more than happy to write a wall of text of how you're exactly supposed to fly both the Thresher and the Bullhead against all ships to maximize their potency and unique shape. The arcs will be looked into again however, since blindfire on battleships is a thing which battlecruisers feel much more than cruisers.