So, I know I dont have a long time vestment in this ship, though I am flying one now, but after speaking with Omicron I was told that at least twice in the past he's tried to commission replacement models for the ship, and it's never gone through.
Now, I'd like to start this out with a picture (click if you need it enlarged):
Now, this shows all of the current order ships with fighters on the top row, the hathor in the middle, and caps on the bottom row. To point out a few things:
-All fighters share appearance traits
-All caps share appearance traits
-The Hathor does not share traits with any of these other ships, fighters or caps
Now, the hathor we have now was developed by Jinx and was based on the zoner gunboat design at the time (along with the civilian gunboat design). These are great designs, but they arent befitting the Order. I believe that, as far as the game RP/timeline is concerned, we would have used ships built or designed by the zoners in the past as resources were limited and the order was jumping at anything readily available for their goals; but I do not believe that is the case anymore. Two major things have changed:
1. The order is no longer officially allied with zoners. In fact, there are numerous zoners currently working -against- the order alongside the BHG core. We have also lost our alliance with the corsairs.
2. The order now controls significantly more space than before (we have pretty much all of Omicron Mu and Omicron Epsilon to ourselves, as opposed to just the small area in minor/toledo and a largely blank guard system), and the order also now owns a more resource rich planet and more starbases which can produce spacecraft.
Needless to say, I think these things qualify as reason enough to move away from the current Hathor design, and develop our own gunboat. We have the resources, we have the facilities, and no offense to the designer but the Hathor certainly looks dated as far as discovery ship models go, especially the textures.
Now, I have my own views on how our gunboat should look, but obviously we need to take into account multiple points of view if we're going to remodel a ship that a lot of people already use. I had a discussion with Omicron, and he has his own points about what should be changed as well (and they differ quite a bit from mine). I'd like to get some other input as well, and I'll see what I can do to draw or kitbash up some concept art for a new design, then hopefully we can get a developer to take a swing at it and get it in-game.
First, our opinions:
Tenacity
Personally, I would go back to our liberty roots with a design similar (but heavily modified from) the Liberty gunboat. It looks more in-line with our other capital ships, and all other order ships and equipment are heavily based on liberty designs. A narrow, elongated shape like the liberty gunboat (and other order/liberty caps) would also make dodging easier, though i really want to avoid changing the stats/purpose of the ship - right now, it's a well rounded ship as far as performance, and it is meant to be a heavy gb afterall, not a light gb like the liberty defiant.
Alternatively, we could take it the opposite route and make it look more like our fighters rather than our caps. If that approach is taken, we can keep the relatively wide/flat shape by using wings like the fighter line have (nephthys/bastet), and still include the wing-mounted second and third engines like the current hathor uses (I do like that feature, actually). A different body shape would be needed, though, and an alternative bridge design.
Omicron
From what I gathered during my conversation with him, Omicron would like the following:
-keep the current shape of the hathor (flat, wide)
-Give it order textures
-Change the bridge from a flat window to a rounded bridge like the tower on the osiris/resheph/geb (perhaps half-circle?)
-Remove the engine intake/scoop from the bottom of the hathor and replace it with some kind of multi-functional cargo bay, possibly with a forward-opening ramp/cargo door setup that would allow the hathor to serve as either a supply ship or a troop transport/assault landing craft.
That discussion also made me think that the order doesnt really have a proper supply craft, and having a larger cargo bay on the hathor could help accomplish that, making it somewhat more similar to the junker gunboats (not increasing size, necessarily, but giving it more cargo space so that it can transport commodities, equipment, and personnel for the order). I would say no more than 900 cargo space (probably less, around 800 or so), so that it isnt forced into using a mk2a cloaking device for those people who do use one on their gb. This would allow the hathor to serve as both a gunboat/patrol boat as well as an armored transport for the order.
Post here with thoughts, I'll try to come up with some concepts based on feedback, I'd like this to be a group effort for everyone who's invested in this ship or the order faction so that we can come to an agreement on what to change.
(10-09-2018, 01:54 AM)Durandal Wrote: Personally I agree with Tena here, and a tube shape is easier to balance as well.
As long as it doesnt get downgraded I'm fine with that, it should remain a heavy gunboat with 600k core / 8 guns.
However, I do still like omicron's suggestion of giving it a forward-opening cargo bay so that it could, in-rp, act as an assault landing ship for troops, or as a supply ship / armored transport for the order's facilities. I think that could be incorporated well into the tube design with a little artistic license.
I would probably go about it the same way as the Togo blood dragon battleship: you have the tube shape (like the osiris hull), but that tube 'splits' into more of a catamaran shape at the front of the ship, and has the cargo bay doors between the two sides of the hull.
Pardon this extremely crude and quick drawing (my drawing skills certainly suck), but this is what I had in mind as a sort of hybrid between the tube shape and the flattened shape:
Essentially you take a tube shaped hull, much like the osiris/resheph/geb/libcaps as a base. There's one main engine at the back (the larger center thruster of the current hathor), with the underbelly engine detail that some of the other caps have (heat sinks and such).
At the front of the tube, instead of coming to an axe head like the osiris, it splits into a more catamaran-like shape, allowing for a forward cargo bay door to be placed there, much like the docking bay on the togo bs:
(for those who arent aware, between the two catamaran hull segments of the togo is a big docking bay door)
On each side of the tube you have a large nephthys-style wing, slightly downswept, with an engine built into each wing (so we can keep the 3 engine setup of the current hathor, with the main engine in the center and one on each wing).
On top of the ship, we have the standard circular/dome shaped bridge section, but with just four window ports on the front, and the dome is more teardrop shaped towards the back, blending into the rest of the hull rather than simply sticking straight out.
Turret hardpoints are where my design here falls short. The current hathor can fire all 8 turrets forward, while this design only allows for 7 (one turret is rear facing), that could be a problem, and would need some creative changes to the ship shape to work out.
Other turret hardpoints are:
2x Heavy gunboat hardpoints on each side of the forward hull
4x gunboat hardpoints on the wings (one on top and one on bottom of each wing).
The remaining two turret hardpoints are on the top-rear and bottom-front of the center hull.
I'm sure a lot of hathor pilots would be pissed if they lost a forward turret, so I'd like to see if someone can come up with a solution there. Otherwise, I (personally) would be fine with 7 forward and one being rear only, perhaps if the bottom turret (the forward one) was also a heavy, giving the hathor 3 heavy turrets and 5 normal turrets. That would at least allow for more versatility in armament.