So, first off, this thread is not about questionning if Belfast should have fallen or not, but rather the way it did due to the many inconsistencies found in the infocard.
The first part will be a list of thoses many, way too many, illogical points that could be spotted in the storyline part of the infocard.
And i hope this will help the dev team to fix thoses errors and find a write a realistic fall for Belfast.
The second part will about all the mistakes made during the xth rewrite of Belfast lore.
Let's start with the current, and full of errors infocards :
Belfast Production Facility
CLASS: Henningsbury
GRAVITY: Complete
DOCKING: Yes
AMENITIES: Yes
POPULATION: 620
Belfast Production Facility was built by BMM 726 AS to refine for minerals mined on planet Middlesbrough before shipping them out of system. The base suffered some casualties in the wake of the Founders Day Revolt, but unlike at Graves Station, the station security on Belfast was able to lock the station down and wait for the Bretonian Police Authority, and BMM stayed in control of the station.
Molly sentiments remained high among the Belfast workforce and the Middlesbrough miners for decades due to ongoing tight police presence on the station. In late 814, while BAF forces were concentrating on the Kusari Front in the Taus, the Mollies attacked the station with a force of improvised Gunboats and a large portion of their fighter craft. The Mollies quickly took control of the station and ejected the captured BMM executives from the top airlock. After seizing the station, the Mollies modified its facilities to produce an improvement on the improvised capital ships they had used to capture the base.
During the invasion of Bretonia by Gallia, the Mollies fortified the station and built a defensive minefield to defend the station from Bretonian attacks. In late 825, having deemed that the Mollies would not be useful allies after the war was won, Gallia betrayed them by launching a surprise attack from inside their defenses. The GRI battleship Embrum, after being moored and under repair by the station for days, deployed a contingent of marines who captured the command center of the station. With no interest in securing the population or fighting any insurgency aboard, the GRI forces aboard sealed the command module and then proceeded to override all safety procedures, open the airlocks, blast doors, and docking bays, suffocating the clear majority of the station's population. Any who made it to emergency air supplies were later killed as the base was repressurized section by section.
1/ Belfast fall.
1/1 The minefield
Here's the first mistake made, here : the minefield was supposedly built to defend the station from Bretonian attacks.
This is WRONG.
(12-08-2017, 04:52 PM)Molly Wrote: ( be it the Royal Navy, the Armed forces, or anyone else ).
As we can see here, the Gaul Royalists are even quoted first.
And there is a reason for that: the Mollys believed that with the current war going on, the party that could afford to launch an attack would be the one with the most troups available...probably not the brets.
But anyway, the minefield on its own, would hinder ANY attack, doesn't matter from whom it'd come from.
1/2 Approaching the minefield, Molly docking procedure
Let's admit it, there is a serious gape here : we do have the minefield construction, and then directly, magically, the Embrun docked at the station.
Doesn't sound like something's missing ? This is WRONG.
Shall we sum it up ? :
- red alert
- sending patrol to intercept/ getting clear scan
-prepare the docking bay to be assaulted or besieged
-send additional bomber squadrons.
All written in the link above... and that is even before knowing what is coming their way !
Now, a quick review on Molly tactics about Belfast :
-before the minefield
-after the minefield
So : prepare to evacuate the station, and blow it up, once it's all lost.
But we'll come back later on the explosion part
And just let's focuse on the first part : there's a red alerte of incoming warship.
So at this point, it's clear that the order to civilians to prepare to evacuate, has been given.
By now, the patrols sent for a scan and/or the station could have a clear view on them : A Royal Gallic Warship, full of marines.
Pretty scary isn't it ?
-Mull, Arranmore, and Coleraine should have been contacted by now : there's an approaching potentially Gallic Warship incoming !
- The incoming Warship should have been contacted and asked why they're here and put on standby before they could enter the minefield.
-Let's assume the gauls answer would have been : the ship is damaged we request docking/mooring for repairs...
Let's disgress now and talk about Molly/ the Kingdom of Gallia relationship...
The molly and the kingdom were in a NAP... see the treaty of seychelles.
We suppose that the kingdom entered it to have not to fight more enemies that they had at that time, especially faction who were already at war with Bretonia.
The Mollys on the other hand, distrust any strangers, and it could be strange to see them having entering that sort of deal. Especially knowing that them, molly, could be the next target of the steamrolling Gauls.
Especially when the first action of the gallic scouting party was to attack BAF and once done, attacked the molly bystanders who were enjoying the show.
Simply to get time, they had once to fight, the bretenian and the Kusari invaders while being threatened by corsairs at the time during the Kusari war.
And they not only got time, but access to the vast gallic market. Time they used to gather resources, build ships, and got ride of the corsairs in O49 alongside their allies from SCRA and RHA. This was years ago.
They watched both kingdom reaping each others, wasting their forces while building their own, readying themselves while the others were losing strength.
One thing is for sure, they expected the gauls to attack them way before they entered new-london, magellan and all. Everyone is telling them the gauls would, and the molly know it will happen, simply by looking at the gauls actions during the past years.
So much time is a bless... the molly even had time to fortify Belfast, and were about to fortify the northern minefield in Dublin ( dev made us choose bewteen Belfast and the other minefield ).
So molly expected to be attacked at some point, even much earlier during the war, they're building a Minefield around Belfast to prevent attacks from warships and the boarding of the Station.
And ... And now .... they would have allowed a potentially very hostile warship full of marines that just laid waste on Birmingham among others, to bypass the minefield they especially built to prevent of the aforementioned warships to approach ( remember, gauls, brets, anyone ), and to dock with all thoses marines insides on one of thoses station...
That's one of the best WTF moments of disco. What the hell were you thinking when you wrote this ?
This level of wrongness is so high !
so WRONG, very WRONG.So much...
How can it be a surprise, it's been years Molly are waiting for this kind of attack, look, they're even prepared for it ( minefields, evacuation protocol bombtrap.
The very term of surprise doesn't even fit. It's WRONG.
Or else that is the most predictable surprise of all disco, then
You can smell an obvious trap miles away. Noone would ever take a chance on that.
Anyway, any ship with Marines aboard would have been denied docking on any molly station, transports, warships, anything....be it , navy, civilian ships. No way. It's not specific to the gauls. But being gauls is even more suspicious.
Now let's get back to the Belfast storyline :
- Belfast to Battleship Embrun : you're docking request is denied, i repeat denied ! Please do turn back.
1/3 Belfast Battle
So docking was denied.
And le'ts admit the gauls really really want that station , at all cost. Even if it's well defended, and that they could aim for an easier target. That's what they want, they're steamrolling everyone, they're proud, and that's not a bunch of peasants with their petty mines that would stop them...So they go for it !!!
Let's just hope for them that the Embrun isn't damaged like they pretended, because the minefield would certainly have damaged it a lot, if not crippled it or destroyed it completly.
Just remember what an early mine did to the Hood back in the days So let's think about what a field of new branded ones could do.
Let's imagine that the Embrun got very lucky with the mines , wasn't damaged too much.
And the Molly forces engage the Gallic forces in a fierce space battle in the minefield... let's hope again that the gallic pilots have any experience fighting in that kind of dangerous situation. Even if i fear for them that ain't. On the other side, the Mollys are.
But thoses ain't there to win a battle, especially if the Gallic forces both in space and mostly the ground units , outnumber them by far. Because, they're just getting time.
Meanwhile evacuation has begun, the whole civilian population of belfast could fit in what ? one or two sneaky freighters ? They're gone during the battle.
The fight would last for how long ? 10 mn, maybe up to 30mn ? before the Mollys would retreat ?
More than enough to evacuate, to receive orders from Arranmore , Mull or Coleraine, if the gauls board the station, they'll just remotly blast the whole station.
By now, it's probable that the fleet suffered damages at some point
1/4 Belfast assault
So let's imagine that the Embrun manage to forcedock one of the mooring point, and that it ain't already a floating wreck by running through the minefield, that it wasn't damaged before approaching Belfast, and that it didn't took any damage from the battle. And now they've cracked open the hatch, leading to the docks.
That's a lot of "if" might i add...We might even consider it very unrealistic... quite WRONG, i'd even say.
Don't even know if the Molly would bother sending men to fight them off here, especially if they're numerous enough.
They would have simply open the airlocks, and submit the invaders to vacuum. and automated or remotly controlled laser turrets do the job.
Let's hope again all thoses fancy marines do wear teir vacuum suits and magnetic soles. If not , they're probably floating in space by now.
But thoses are professionals, ain't they ? So they got all the gear they need.
And despite the loss, they want to proceed to HQ.
1/4 Forward to Command center !!!!
Yeah !!! Forward.
Now, that the Embrun is docked, alike the unrealistic story from the infocard, m'well, the marines have spotted, fired upon, exposed to vacuum. They did found the hatches locked...
They're not teleporting to the HQ of the base. That's also terribly WRONG
They're now just facing the same problems as before , and those they intended to do to the rest of the station once they'd reach the HQ.
But for now, it's just them suffuring from closed airlocks, corridors after corridors, with the usual traps and turrets that the molly left behind them.
Blasting doors, after doors they've finally reached the HQ...How long could that take ? Half an hour , best case scenario ? Plenty of time to be gone for sure...
But now, they're finally here, their plan cost them aplenty, but they can override all safety procedures, open the airlocks, blast doors, and docking bays, suffocating the clear majority of the station's population ( that is gone for quite some time now )....
Unfortunalty for them the time needed to reach the HQ, and to overide the safety procedure, the Mollys At Mull, Arranmore, or Coleraine know they've taken the station.Probably Mull as it's in the same system.
Yeah Explosives, quite a lot of explosives.Stored for years, knowing the station couldn't be held.( see rumors or previous infocards )
How much time would it take to find out all the hidden nuclear devices and regular explosives ? Hours maybe days...
But they ain't got that much time, once they'd enter the HQ, but before they could overide anything. The red button as been pushed.
Best case scenario, they'd have found what a dozen of them, on their way to HQ ?
Now let's imagine that the Mollys didn't do well their Jobs, after all they're just known to be expert in explosives, minefields and all ?
But let's admit they couldn't do their job well enough and only 10% detonated...
That's still A LOT of explosives that detonated, far enough to blow up the station and the docked battleship...
Contaminating the station and the surrounding space for decades.
Now, i suppose there could be some radiation suits, but still the station if not totally blown up, which is totally improbable and basically WRONG.
It would take, month if not years, to repair it, especially in the now radiation heavy environment.
At least it cannot remained intact.
And what about the Embrun ? Intact aswell ?
You'd tell that after the blast from the station it is moored at, it suffered no damages at all ? Let's imagine it would have survived being blast onto the minefield, creating a chain of explosions as it's blasted away from the exploding station.
The fate of the Embrun should be realistic.... BOOM !
1/6 to conclude
There is so much wrongness and errors in the way the fall of Belfast have been narrated, that it took an entire post to gather the most obvious one.
Please Devs, we all want to play in a realistic setting, not in a world with so much inconsistencies that the willing suspension of disbelief is broken way too much often.
In the case of Belfast fall, we reached the pinnacle of that plague disco.
Please do review your work on Belfast Fall and the consequences., take into account all what has been done about it. Just don't resort on thoses deus ex machinae or plot armor. Please.
Please make discovery great again.
Tomorrow, we'll start with all what went wrong with Belfast lore ( that has been change over ten time over the last years, once again, we'll point out every inconsistencies encountered, and there's many.
See you tomorrow.
(03-31-2010, 11:48 PM)Sprolf Wrote: That is the crux of the matter.
If you aid us, and you aid them, you are the enemy.
If you do not aid them, you are worthless outside of extortion potential.
If you aid us, you will be treated with respect.
(03-31-2010, 11:48 PM)Sprolf Wrote: That is the crux of the matter.
If you aid us, and you aid them, you are the enemy.
If you do not aid them, you are worthless outside of extortion potential.
If you aid us, you will be treated with respect.
Agree with Blodwyn. If provided with Molly's explanation and back lore on this, the whole assault makes little sense. I wonder if the Mollys were asked of this during the development of the plot.
Yet another inconsistence in the whole recent Gallia advantage, about which devs obviously couldn't care less.
It is supposed to squeeze all the juice from Gallia being that new evil spooky antagonist before everything settles down.
Peace, being the distant dream it is, comes inevitably, and goes hand in hand with justice.
Cursed be the war.
We (the story devs) have spent the better part of the day discussing the future of Belfast and how it can be handled taking into account Mollys lore. I for one am looking forward to your second post.
I can say that this was a simple decision of i couldn't care less because we want it gone.
The Devs were informed about all the RP and lore behind Belfast, and still they wanted Belfast gone. After some initial resistance from Molly side we just went with the loss of it but asked to do it properly.
It's inconceivable the way it was done... This way just demonstrates the couldn't care less about years of RP attitude from the always changing dev teams.
(11-29-2018, 08:12 AM)Honeytea Wrote: Yet another inconsistence in the whole recent Gallia advantage, about which devs obviously couldn't care less.
It is supposed to squeeze all the juice from Gallia being that new evil spooky antagonist before everything settles down.
Agreed. Given the fact that StoryDevs want Gallia to loose... what's even point of them getting any bases in Sirius beforehands only to have them driven away within next updates? Sure, explain that as 'dynamic roleplay'. That's putting unnecessary effort into what was already established by Devs long ago that "Bretonia cannot be killed, because plot-armor".
On the other hand, I don't want players having full control over the plot through the PVP because that wouldn't mirror the lore size and abilities of the factions. This isn't Elite Dangerous where non-combat players can still support their own faction through economy and sabotage.
And, Belfast in GRN hands? Pretty much what Blodwyn pointed out. No point to adding anything up.