(03-13-2019, 10:38 AM)Lusitano Wrote: so WHY tehre is not for Zoners that could also be used by the Corsairs, to support their effors also on GC?!!
Well easy answer there, most of the community don't care about Zoners and Devs don't like them also, so there you go the reason why.
I know that, but just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean you don't have to respect
Felipe many people wanted to help, many people tryed to help, but nobody wanted. I accept the lost of GC just like you accept the Sigma War, but at least you have a something, and Zoners got nothing .... how hard can be a entry point? Why there is one for Samura on Kurile and not one for Zoners /Corsairs in GC? Well Pulçha already said why.
Zoners are not a house and some push for one side and others push to others sides, and the day that stop happens and all Zoners work as one, that day is the end of Zoners because the become a house.
Long time ago many had Zoner chars just for trading, because many factions didn't care about Zoners and some saw Zoners has friends, and others saw Zoners as friends if they were trading with then, but then Zoners become an target, and the number of Zoner traders dropped, mainly after the ores came out, and the best places to sell it were and still is in house space, Now are so few and those who have it are so ... lets say located on one corner of Sirius, that is very hard to make an action group, and i can give you an exemple, on the first event zoner vs bretonia, many players created that char on that day just for the event, i remeber well one even was asking what ships he could buy on Omega 49!!! In other words, There isn't enough players and ships to focus on one side of Sirius, like a house can do ... bretonia has all her ships in Bretonia, Zoners have on all corners of Sirius! Maybe the most populated zoner place is Delta because some pew pew ... that's all!!many people are forgeting that there are fewer players playing it, and some just play for pew pew ... Zoners don't pew pew much!!
And to end this ... because it is useless, take care all
Storyline development needs to make players feel engaged and like they're contributing to progress rather than being helpless observers, while at the same time preventing factions with large playerbases and assertive leadership from dominating the story and leaving unpopular niche factions in the dust, all while maintaining logical consistency and avoiding deus ex machinas to force illogical outcomes AND maintaining decent pace without year-long gaps in progression.
Obviously this is a pretty difficult balancing act. I'd like to say that I'm pretty happy with the way the Aland conflict has been handled so far, although obviously it's only been a factor in the most recent patch. The Sigma war is an example of a very poorly done development, one which relevant faction leaders and players pretty much universally opposed and with very few exceptions almost immediately lost interest in, in addition to having threadbare, barely credible logical consistency.
There's always going to be good and bad, if there's anything I would suggest in regards to storyline development it's to maintain maximum possible transparency and listen to players and faction leaders arguments for their development ideas wherever possible.
Events events events. All these major developments should be proceeded by events. Or if not that, roleplay of some kind. PvP events, trade events, RP events etc. All items of roleplay should be looked at, and thier ability to create activity should be considered.
(03-13-2019, 01:15 AM)Riehl Wrote: It genuinely appears that most of the posters here don't have any idea as to how this internally works. The problem is that it's impossible to give examples as to how it does work without leaking, so, nyah.
If you pick on the posts of people that haven't been in leadership positions, sure. Not that I think their lack of leadership undermines the excellent points they are making.
(03-13-2019, 05:51 AM)Markam Wrote: Not everyone is happy, but all in all the changes made in this update were player driven. However for obvious reasons, stated by Wesker in particular, in-game player activity/pvp victories cannot dictate the outcome.
The situation with Omega 3, the outcome is likely the takeover of Aland, why? Because the story dictates Bretonia needs a Shipyard, and weighing all the options, Aland was the best solution. BAF was guided by devs, but BAF made the call. Updates will reflect what is the most logical outcome, regardless of player activity which of course can have illogical situations like IMG attacking New London/Cambridge, when they realistically stand no chance against Norfolk, especially now the Kessel was routed.
And what is more, Kessel's attack on the BPA base was entirely a player choice, 100%. Moving of the Norfolk was also a player choice. Guess what? Both choices were put together to make a result, that being the destruction of the BPA base, but also the Kessel being crippled and no longer able to contribute in the defense of Aland.
And you know, the above could have played out differently. The Hessians could have easily placed the Battleship elsewhere in Omega 3, sat it above the shipyard to make a stand, whatever. They could have even not moved the Battleship at all, lending only token support to IMG, that was entirely their choice. I'm not aware of the background/purpose of the Fes moving, but I have a very strong feeling this was done by Corsair player factions input/request. The patch notes say it is heading to Omega 49, but you know, the Corsairs can decide to take advantage of Hessian weakness and do something in Omega 47, or go finish off the Kessel in Omega 5, it is entirely their choice. I imagine the original intent, in the wake of the Omega 49 situation, was to fight back against Bretonia there using the Fes, but now the situation may be different.
Now (as of writing this post), we are dealing with the aftermath, and looking towards the next moves. Hessians are scrambling to repair their ship/get it out of danger. And who knows, maybe rival factions are now looking to finish it off? Maybe Brets will take revenge for the base, or Corsairs will swoop down on it? Maybe Core can do it for their benefactors in Omega (RM, or BAF for example), what happens next is entirely up to the player factions.
There have been no events and not really any roleplay for any of the Omega-related stuff that dropped in this patch. Players scrambling to quickly solidify them in the RP environment is exactly part of the problem, and ultimately shows big disconnect between the server and mod environment. These kinds of changes are things that could float in a singleplayer game, but we are a multiplayer community. And by no means do any events have to be pure PvP - there is a multitude of gameplay and roleplay opportunities to which players can be involved in the story process. Once again, I am not arguing that IMG should be able to swarm NL with Args and take over the planet, that's why we have planning and structure so that the moments where players can affect the story are given designated opportunities.
(03-13-2019, 05:51 AM)Markam Wrote: And instead of writing in this thread, you can take part in this new movement. And I disagree that "forced, predetermined RP" will hurt activity, the situation unfolding in Omega 3 has created a massive wave of activity, and it has been great fun. I would argue the opposite to the OP in saying that if the outcome was fully determined by ingame PVP events, we'd see a lot more stress, and in extreme cases, the side that isn't as good at pvp will not log on at all, in fear of hurting their RP. A strange thought.
The stuff in Omega-3 is now at risk of spoiling because people are taking things more seriously than they should, because of these forced storylines that rob people of choice and impact and make them feel like they need to prove a point to the Staff. There certainly now seems to be a bubbling undercurrent of toxicity rising between both sides.
I genuinely think the developments in the Omegas in the last patch should all be retconned, and then re-planned with Official events (PvP, trade and RP ones) with player-driven outcomes. People's toys being forcefully taken, destroyed, or moved has left an extremely sour taste in their mouths which unless addressed is going to stagnate and ultimately kill this conflict, or worse.
(03-13-2019, 05:51 AM)Markam Wrote: Not everyone is happy, but all in all the changes made in this update were player driven. However for obvious reasons, stated by Wesker in particular, in-game player activity/pvp victories cannot dictate the outcome.
The situation with Omega 3, the outcome is likely the takeover of Aland, why? Because the story dictates Bretonia needs a Shipyard, and weighing all the options, Aland was the best solution. BAF was guided by devs, but BAF made the call. Updates will reflect what is the most logical outcome, regardless of player activity which of course can have illogical situations like IMG attacking New London/Cambridge, when they realistically stand no chance against Norfolk, especially now the Kessel was routed.
If they can't, we shouldn't bother with these situations. People don't really crave the need as much as you think for changing tides of wars if its all artificial. Just let everything stay the same in that case. It seems to me like over time, its that attitude that landed us in this situation. The fact that everything is organized behind closed doors leaves you wondering what really matters. If we have a system of measurement, any simple system, we can all publicly tell what factions are really capable of what impact by what they generate, and that takes people. Instead of seeing the liklihood factions would die in this situation while others dominate, see it as, once people know you have to push for a faction to get its gains, players make their choices and get to work. Things will even out.
The problem is half of us are in immersion mode and the other half are in a mode where we're just playing both sides of a chess game, and it doesn't matter. People never know if things happening are actually freely happening or just a dev guided performance.
Is this situation with Aland dev directed? Is it really going to save Bretonia from losing the war or is it just going to save post-war Bretonia from being a totally failed state?
Base sieges are about the only battle form that is always free flowing. As events, you get a clear answer of who wins and loses. But a lot happens without anything and it makes me wonder if its really necessary? Why not just focus on one area at a time to have an organized stand off, with a free flowing battle in the form of either a base siege (of the npc base in question) or kill counter event (which in the case of these wars should only count GB's and up, with due respect to fighter aces, its too easy for them to rack up fighter to fighter kills, when that doesn't really take care of an enemy fleet's capital ships, which are the real targets. Fighters should be for defending smaller ships, not racking up easy kills while ignoring the big ships).
(03-23-2019, 02:17 PM)Emperor's Fangs Wrote: That DM from Kaze does not reflect the views of the development team as a whole as he clarified above, but I apologize personally for not coming to you in person and clarifying the situation, Sombra. I know this isn't really the place for this but it needs to be in a place where everybody can see it. It's far past time that we set certain things in stone regarding what is canon, what is not, and what requires approval from the development team to canonize. There needs to be serious transparency and elaboration regarding how much influence the players have upon the game world both in terms of injecting their own narratives and altering extant ones. There's a lot of misunderstanding, anger, and accusations of bias being flung around these days that simply is not going to go away on it's own. Personally what I want to do is get the devteam together on Twitch or something and do a podcast where we talk about these things in a controlled environment with the community, rather than what's going on currently with everyone running off of opinion, hearsay, and constantly assuming the worst case scenario at all times. For each player losing their mind over Aland right now there's a Bretonian player who is certain they will lose the war against Gallia and a Gallic player certain they will lose the war against Bretonia. As the song goes there's not much love to go around, and I think it's time that we all drew a line in the sand and began separating ourselves from the self destructive chess-play of a game intended to be populated ultimately by characters, whose lives, however impacted they may be by the events of Discovery, are not our own.
More on this in the days to come.
Edit: This is Durandal. Can a GM please switch the acc on this post?
This already has had a discussion, yet when I tried to raise it I was made to feel like an idiot who didn't know what they were talking about. People are absolutely pissed - if the patch changes I raised were bad, this was even worse.
God dammit, all people want is a platform where players and devs can come together to collaborate on roleplay and have it make an impact on the mod, not be string puppets in a play. DiscoveryGC - gaming COMMUNITY - should be a place where people work together to tell an emergent and dynamic story. Not this extremely railroaded forced story stuff that gives the middle finger to players who try to show interest.
There will be a development event tonight that is highly player driven and was done at my request. Not all development is done without consultation or player roleplay development. It's not black-and-white, either or.
No, I am not backing any horse in this debate.
THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)
(03-23-2019, 02:34 PM)Riehl Wrote: There will be an event tonight that is highly player driven and was done at my request.
But does it have anything to do with what people are upset about or is it your event that's completely unrelated to the issue at hand?
I'm pointing it out as comparison, adding in more data. This thread is about all story events. I'm certainly not contradicting anybody's right to dislike this current event, just adding more views to the pot for discussion.
I'm not making this thread about me.
THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)