I don't want to answer to each message in this thread and I don't have position to do it, but I feel like I really need to insert my 2 cents here:
Regarding profits from cardamine - you consider only factions, while there is plenty unaffiliated addicts among civilians, zoners, freelancers and et cetera. Cardamine afair is known to be the most popular and spreaded drug in Sirius, so it's obvious that a lot of usual people will also take it. Factions you mentioned just roleplay usage of cardamine and confirm their connection to it.
(10-15-2019, 08:11 PM)Lucas Wrote: The only question I have would be: Why do you make an Outcast faction if you dislike the Lore of the faction itself? That kind of makes it seem like you just want to be a special snowflake amongst the Outcasts, which should not be what one is going for when creating a faction under the banner of a certain NPC Group
I mean, it is totally fine that you roleplay something distinctive from NPC faction as long as it has logical sense, because factions are dynamic, they change and hard sticking to lore will result in stagnation. No, I actually mean that you should take it into account, but you shouldn't really roleplay the same stuff from year to year. OCs also had different approaches, starting from narco-cartels (Black Lotus Cartel) and ending with nomad-worshippers from Crimson Cross. And there was also attempt to establish civilian state and government (NC-) fyi, which, talking about soft core approach to Houses, made OC to be neutral in Rheinland, so I guess it's totally fine for outcasts to actually develop ties with the Houses, instead of killing anything and anyone.
tl;dr: stop clinging for lore, you should take it into account of course, but roleplaying same stuff from year to year is kind of cringe tbh.
(10-15-2019, 08:09 PM)Hemlocke Wrote: I must say, with my gaze temporarily set back on the scene, and with people stirring up feedback threads worse than Chio. I have been pleasantly surprised with how simply and directly you answered all the accusations and questioning. Amidst all this drama over... whatever it is. I have also been lead to superb roleplay on behalf of this faction. Your roleplay is solid, my few encounters with you in game have been enjoyable, and your feedback is solid. Kudos. It's hard to be impressed with anything in Discovery anymore.
It goes without saying that pretty much everyone has a big stick complex in regards to pixel power, but I see you referencing vanilla lore and in game assets (Which NPC assets are canon) instead of referencing some page that is not considered actual canon. You also admit when you don't know something, and take criticism well as seen above. For that you have my respect.
Quality faction, Keep it up.
+1 on this.
The only question I have would be: Why do you make an Outcast faction if you dislike the Lore of the faction itself? That kind of makes it seem like you just want to be a special snowflake amongst the Outcasts, which should not be what one is going for when creating a faction under the banner of a certain NPC Group
I never said I dislike Outcast as a faction per se. I would not have created an outcast char should that have been truth (would probably be a Corsair). I mentioned that I disliked people clinging to vanilla representation of OC in disco as not looking in strategic perspective drug dealers on the level of some Colombian warlord, not mafia, that are barely capable of self-organisation despite 800 years of history. That point of view has the logic in vanilla give nthe comparison with other factions. In Disco, I liked the idea of more organised OC on par with other factions: a group of BHG reorganised into a state of the Core, RHA have a quasi-state with the army, fleet, intelligence, and the only thing that separates them from being a state is recognition, Coalition that is small but well organised, NO, etc, and even the Corsair Empire that is a feared foe for Bretonia and Rheinland with solid advances in Omegas. In this regard I considered an updated vision of the OC to be fit in the lore. I like OC, I dislike playing them as in vanilla on disco where such self-limitation is absurd.
Some people also address the fact that we now RP the government as the corporation. Mind, this RP was not conceived when the faction was created as NC and the Legion were around. Now that NC is gone and Legion sticking to PvP and military RP mostly, we agreed with former Legion's 1IC to take over the politics so Malta is represented. We agreed on nationalistic and not corporatocratic direction and started doing what we are doing. This is also an interesting RP as it shows the political development. Maltese fit well, actually, for a powerful Cartel/Corporation through means of connections, bribes, and lobbyism integrating with the administration for Malta is strongly capitalistic and values wealth. Mind, that the current form of government was specifically conceived in mind with many possible factions and decentralisation: Senate is meant to include representatives of OF while the Council of Tribunes - Unofficial so that their status is inRP explained and their impact on the course of the faction is provided in inRP laws.
Tl;DR: I never said I disliked OC, I said in choosing between disco lore and vanilla lore I prefer disco lore allowing OC to be more organised.
(10-16-2019, 04:33 AM)Mr.Cardaminum Wrote: I prefer disco lore
Now I've had these conversations for years. But if a faction can't embrace its own themes, then it risks losing the precious identity of its NPC faction affiliation. That's not subjective either, it's a bit like stripping away a person's.. well.. personality and then engineering them to behave differently. You cited numerous examples of factions to justify "development" and I'd like to address them all.
The Core showcases none of the characteristics of the bounty hunters in Freelancer. They're a relic from a different time in this community's lifespan where the trend of being "x faction but different" was quite popular, and it quite clearly still is to some degree.
The RHA in Discovery aren't the Red Hessians. This is going to sound mildly confusing, but this statement is based upon the fact that the only thing they truly share with their freelancer counterpart is the namesake.
The Coalition is not vanilla and therefore I'm not sure how I'd even begin to address the subject of their lore and current interpretations of it. They're something of an oddity given their status as a prequel faction.
People are less interested in playing each faction for what it is and have become obnoxiously adamant in seeing just how well they can enable their own needs rather than creative development. I'm not saying a faction shouldn't try to do new things either, but there must always be a balance between change and conformity when a vanilla faction is concerned.
I must nonetheless therefore conclude that at least as far as I've been able to observe, there has not till date been a legitimate Outcast faction. What you have in common with both the Core and the RHA is that you've sacrificed a genuinely interesting faction and its relevant themes in favour of some vague pursuit of statehood.
As much as I applaud your ability to do so efficiently and with exhibitions of great intellect, this is harmful to the overall environment of the universe, as it will eventually erode the fundamental differences between various factions and instead render them all generic.
(10-16-2019, 04:33 AM)Mr.Cardaminum Wrote: I prefer disco lore
Now I've had these conversations for years. But if a faction can't embrace its own themes, then it risks losing the precious identity of its NPC faction affiliation. That's not subjective either, it's a bit like stripping away a person's.. well.. personality and then engineering them to behave differently. You cited numerous examples of factions to justify "development" and I'd like to address them all.
The Core showcases none of the characteristics of the bounty hunters in Freelancer. They're a relic from a different time in this community's lifespan where the trend of being "x faction but different" was quite popular, and it quite clearly still is to some degree.
The RHA in Discovery aren't the Red Hessians. This is going to sound mildly confusing, but this statement is based upon the fact that the only thing they truly share with their freelancer counterpart is the namesake.
The Coalition is not vanilla and therefore I'm not sure how I'd even begin to address the subject of their lore and current interpretations of it. They're something of an oddity given their status as a prequel faction.
People are less interested in playing each faction for what it is and have become obnoxiously adamant in seeing just how well they can enable their own needs rather than creative development. I'm not saying a faction shouldn't try to do new things either, but there must always be a balance between change and conformity when a vanilla faction is concerned.
I must nonetheless therefore conclude that at least as far as I've been able to observe, there has not till date been a legitimate Outcast faction. What you have in common with both the Core and the RHA is that you've sacrificed a genuinely interesting faction and its relevant themes in favour of some vague pursuit of statehood.
As much as I applaud your ability to do so efficiently and with exhibitions of great intellect, this is harmful to the overall environment of the universe, as it will eventually erode the fundamental differences between various factions and instead render them all generic.
The fact that there are no factions representing OC the way they were in Malta tells that a) people who play the OC as a primary faction prefer different kind of OC; b) people who prefer the old OC do not play the OC. Ofc, these conclusions are superfluous but you get the idea. If old OC were so appealing then there for sure would be a faction representing them. The biggest problem with the old OC is that they are quite static, rendering political, economic, and scientific RP unecessary, leaving us with mundane RP of sitting in front of Malta and chit-chatting and exchanging reverances with Corsairs in pews.
As I said, we started as OC corp closer to the roots. Once we were elevated in the position of power, we just started doing what was logical given our position in the world and pre-existing conditions left after NC and the Legion. We could have ofc continued without the gov and just do OC powertrading with some corruption RP, but that would be limiting and mundane.
After all, it is a matter of preferences. Someone likes vanilla lore more, someone finds Disco lore appealing. Someone likes OC as simple drug dealers, someone adds something new to it. As you mentioned RHA, it is a good example. RHA nowadays fits well in its role of stirring things up in RHeinland and threatening with a whole large scale Revolution. It is just RH from vanilla on steroids that follow their objectives and ideas and develop. Same can be said for Disco OC. We share the same goals with vanilla OC, we just have developed and expanded. If there is no way for development, then the whole point of RP to me is lost. I don't like mundane chit-chats with no purpose, hence I always avoided trading whether being ganked by a pirate or not for the RP encoutners for me were boring. A matter of taste, after all.