(05-10-2019, 03:17 PM)Ash Wrote: There are literally dozens of ships that fit your description. In fact several sub-classes.
The salvager frigate is arguably a special ship and certainly one of a kind. The Raba is a signature Hog ship with borrowed heavy transport stats. By copying these stat balances and applying them to new models for lots of other factions you are taking away that uniqueness; not just of the ships, but of their respective factions.
There has to be limits, otherwise there’s little incentive to try out one ship or another aside from the aesthetic.
We're not copying the stats. The ships would have varying sizes, strengths, and cargo capacities, as well as different capabilities. One might have anomaly scanning capabilities. One might have mining capabilities that are limited to the azurite and iridium of omicron delta. One might have no mining capabilities at all. The salvager and raba would still be the main authorities of scrap.
There are not currently suitable ship classes in-game for this role, because the currently existing battle transports are very heavy and slow, making them unsuitable for this role, while the 3k cargo transports are almost suitable, but need a bit of a hull and power upgrade (which would come along with an increased cost).
Heavy transports are more than suitable for the role you’re describing. But if you want agility then light transports are what you need. Both can hold their own against a lone bomber and could be tweaked to carry one of the special functions you’re after. An entirely new transport class won’t make up for poor flying skill in transports.
It keeps getting thrown around that this isn’t about money. Or at least mostly. Then why should the hold capacity matter? Once you get over that hang up, your options will increase ten fold. For a really fun and rounded experience in a shipping class, i highly recommend freighters.
Hell, if you really want to be cancer then look into armored transports.
(05-12-2019, 08:13 AM)Ash Wrote: Heavy transports are more than suitable for the role you’re describing. But if you want agility then light transports are what you need. Both can hold their own against a lone bomber and could be tweaked to carry one of the special functions you’re after. An entirely new transport class won’t make up for poor flying skill in transports.
I am not poor in skill at flying transports. I am unstoppable in pretty much any transport; even ones not meant for fighting. If you don't believe me, you can bring any fighter, bomber, SHF, or transport to Connecticut, and have a duel with me. You won't win.
However, there's a difference between being able to defend yourself, and being able to defend another ship. To protect someone else, you have to be faster, and have faster guns. These frigates are meant to serve in groups, protecting other ships. To do that, they have to be fast.
(05-12-2019, 08:13 AM)Ash Wrote: It keeps getting thrown around that this isn’t about money. Or at least mostly. Then why should the hold capacity matter? Once you get over that hang up, your options will increase ten fold. For a really fun and rounded experience in a shipping class, i highly recommend freighters.
Hell, if you really want to be cancer then look into armored transports.
I have used all kinds of freighters and transports. However, a freighter's 500-600 cargo space makes it unsuitable as a transport ship. We're not asking for a 5k powertrading ship. If it was about money, we'd just fly a 5k-er, and make more money anyway because pirates nowadays ask for only 2 million credits. The cargo space of 2k-3k is simply to make it suitable as a transport.
I have 24 pelicans. I know what they're like. But that's not what we're asking for.
(05-12-2019, 09:25 AM)Commissar SnakeLancer™ Wrote: It'd also be nice if the Frigate class had like faster impulse speed than a regular Gunboat.
I think a light transport speed of 100 (159 with thrust) is appropriate. Perhaps 169 on some of the lighter frigates.
(05-12-2019, 03:10 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: I think a light transport speed of 100 (159 with thrust) is appropriate. Perhaps 169 on some of the lighter frigates.
Yeah, see small changes like that can give the class a lil bit of advantage, hence why I'm saying if those would be applied it would make the Frigates more useful than what they are now and more interesting. I'm gonna put the impulse speed as a 4th on the first post. I've added the repair tool slot into the list aswell.
MORE IDEAS. Thus far I love the small changes/addjustments that were proposed instead of a major overhaul, I realy think that'll do.
(05-12-2019, 05:05 PM)Jayce Wrote: You want a gunboat that thrusts as fast as a small transport with Cruiser guns. What?
wat, where does it say that? Wait who said that o_O the first post on this Thread does in fact mention that we should give up on the seperate class but work on how the current "Frigate" is perceived in Disco Universe and work with that.
Applicable ideas:
Code:
So far ideas, suggestions that are minimal but vital in my eyes to turn frigates into a multi-purpose transport ship:
- Give Frigates a Repair Tool slot like Repair Ships have
- Add Anomaly Scanners class
- 375 or 400 Cruise Speed
- Light Transport impulse speed of 100 (159 with thrust) is appropriate. Perhaps 169 on some of the lighter Frigates.
(05-12-2019, 05:05 PM)Jayce Wrote: Everyone who has contributed to the awful ideas in this thread should be kept as far from the balance team as possible.
You want a gunboat that thrusts as fast as a small transport with Cruiser guns. What?
No... You're combining different ideas together. These are different ideas to choose from, not all ideas to be put onto the same ship.
A frigate could be a heavy ship with cruiser guns, a medium ship with gunboat turrets, or a lighter ship with heavy transport turrets.
Nobody was suggesting that a frigate be light, have fast thrust, AND cruiser turrets on the same ship.
(05-12-2019, 03:10 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: I am not poor in skill at flying transports. I am unstoppable in pretty much any transport; even ones not meant for fighting. If you don't believe me, you can bring any fighter, bomber, SHF, or transport to Connecticut, and have a duel with me. You won't win.
Then you’re clearly coping just fine with what’s currently available.
(05-12-2019, 03:10 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: However, there's a difference between being able to defend yourself, and being able to defend another ship. To protect someone else, you have to be faster, and have faster guns. These frigates are meant to serve in groups, protecting other ships. To do that, they have to be fast.
I have used all kinds of freighters and transports. However, a freighter's 500-600 cargo space makes it unsuitable as a transport ship. We're not asking for a 5k powertrading ship. If it was about money, we'd just fly a 5k-er, and make more money anyway because pirates nowadays ask for only 2 million credits. The cargo space of 2k-3k is simply to make it suitable as a transport.
I have 24 pelicans. I know what they're like. But that's not what we're asking for.
Making any transport capable of holding their own as well as defending others seems to go against the nature of transports really. They are supposed to be vulnerable.
To me it seems there’s just too much overlap. Taking the best of each class and not really giving much back. It would probably hollow out alot of other sub-classes.
(05-12-2019, 03:10 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: I am not poor in skill at flying transports. I am unstoppable in pretty much any transport; even ones not meant for fighting. If you don't believe me, you can bring any fighter, bomber, SHF, or transport to Connecticut, and have a duel with me. You won't win.
Then you’re clearly coping just fine with what’s currently available.
(05-12-2019, 03:10 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: However, there's a difference between being able to defend yourself, and being able to defend another ship. To protect someone else, you have to be faster, and have faster guns. These frigates are meant to serve in groups, protecting other ships. To do that, they have to be fast.
I have used all kinds of freighters and transports. However, a freighter's 500-600 cargo space makes it unsuitable as a transport ship. We're not asking for a 5k powertrading ship. If it was about money, we'd just fly a 5k-er, and make more money anyway because pirates nowadays ask for only 2 million credits. The cargo space of 2k-3k is simply to make it suitable as a transport.
I have 24 pelicans. I know what they're like. But that's not what we're asking for.
Making any transport capable of holding their own as well as defending others seems to go against the nature of transports really. They are supposed to be vulnerable.
To me it seems there’s just too much overlap. Taking the best of each class and not really giving much back. It would probably hollow out alot of other sub-classes.
These transports would have much less cargo capacity than other transports. The advantage provided by their defensive ability is outweighed by their lack of cargo.
A person will typically be pirated less than once every 10 runs, for a mere 2 million credits. That's similar to losing 200 cargo space, which gives an average of losing 20 cargo per run. This loss of 20 cargo space is prevented by using a ship that will have 1650-2500 less cargo space. It is not providing an unfair trading advantage. Players using this ship will still earn far less money. It will simply allow them to play a new role, adding more fun to the game.
It will not make any other class of ship useless, because it's still not as good at any role as other ships. For trading, it yields less profit. As a gunboat, it's still a larger target without being more powerful.
Take a look at the Salvager. It is already the kind of ship we're asking for. It has 159 m/s thrust, which is faster than a gunboat. It has a heavy gunboat's hull, with a light gunboat's firepower, and 3350 cargo. It is noticeably larger than a gunboat, and slower, yet still relatively small and fast for a transport. It does not replace the gunboat's combat role at all, because in group fights it is much more easily hit than a gunboat.