(07-24-2019, 04:55 PM)Durandal Wrote: I would sincerely like to know why, if most factions are allegedly gaining their activity through AFKing, that we are not receiving more (any) violation reports on the matter.
It's certainly not "most factions", but every now and again you see a OF-tagged guy logged on in a system for 2 hours and you cant find any other sign of him there. Could of course just be that he forgot a Discovery window was running behind his other windows.
Either way, rather than report or sanction, it prolly makes more sense to have a conversation about why people would actually AFK so they can keep powers that they realistically make no real use of because they don't really play. Which is part pf a much bigger conversation than will be solved in a few posts here.
I am sure there are better ideas than throwing money around. With the quantity of events going on lately, fairly easy to get some doe.
Giving official factions the ability to spawn offensive pobs (has to be within 20k of enemy base) that are annoying (no weapon platforms, but improved basic guns) and can be knocked down with a bit of effort (not days or hours), if the pob stays up for X hours it vanishes and the faction gets a big pile of sci data, if the enemy boops it they get sci data.
I dunno honestly. Ideas are easy to come by, but there will be a ton of flaws. As was mentioned, official factions have the ability to request development make something that interests the players of that faction, better trade routes, ID changes, events etc, official or not, there are some underlying needs of the community to have something to do.
(07-25-2019, 01:10 AM)JonasHudson Wrote: Factions need good faction activities. Activities with a practical purpose and an actual physical thing to generate for that purpose would add some options. In other words, new faction capabilities/rights could be added that would need to be earned in game. Either a phyisical commodity like farming pilots/remains, or an achievable in game objective, like having bases or other objects siegeable.
Earnable objectives could be things like eliminating 'satellites' in systems that prevent jumping, cloaking, using cruise engines, shut down gates or tradelanes.
Basically i still advocate selling RP developments or light environmental changes based on activity. Also, making those things only executeble via official factions would make maintaining them a bit more appealing, and add more enticement to earn the use of those rights by playing for them (joining), so that might encourage people who want to use the factions to make big moves. That is a thing players would like to be able to do here.
So think of a faction being able to earn points to cash in for options, like a system wide cloak inhibitor, docking inhibitor, cruise inhibitor. They could be placed anywhere in the system and opponents would need to search them out, and try to take them out. Imagine if factions started trying to curb trade to certain systems by earning and placing cruise inhibitor satellites in systems to cut off a route, or anti jump inhibitor to disable a system's jumpgates, or make cloaking impossible in the system its placed in. Just keep the objects somewhere in the confines of the map, and on plane level, and they could eventually be found.
So then we have new situations, lead by the OF's, of action and reaction. You could do this tomorrow if you wanted to and it would create epic reasons to be active. People want more reasons to log these days, we've had years to see this place evolve to allow for some real risk.
So imagine if in New York. the Xenos or LR dropped one of these satellite targets in the badlands or somewhere in the outskirts of the system. Suddenly they announce jumpgates in NY are shut down until further notice. Ships would need jumpships to get them out, and the Navy/police could begin hunting for, and taking out the satellite. The unlawfuls could then defend.
Again, a simple system of rules defining earnables for factions, and the ability to actually effect the environment (with work) would attract those who like to get involved in thoe types of stand offs. No offense but yes some traders would be inconvenienced! Thats also the point. They can pay for a jump out if they were in system when the satellite went online, or emplore the navy to get busy taking it out. These types of self perpetuating situations always create a gamble for those looking for fresh action.
There are a ton of little things like that we could do here to spice things up with what we already have, with minimal work. As long as devs could drop in a destructable object that looks like a satellite, maybe like the spyglass network node, the work to create those temporary situations would seem to be minimal. Imagine being a navy player and getting real missions every so often, actually having something to hunt around for and then call in support to attack. It can be done!
(07-24-2019, 04:51 PM)Vendetta Wrote: I beg to differ. I always have fun even when I'm not getting paid to do what I volunteered for. That's kind of why we do it, isn't it? It isn't because we're seeking to gain something but to make the overall experience for those in the faction better. We don't need regular cash rewards to do that.
If you're not enjoying the job you picked, maybe find a different job
To quote Reacher, it's a thankless job. Even by your own admission, it's a job. It shouldn't be a job! There is an element of responsibility for sure, but I don't want it to consume my time and enjoyment in a way that becomes less about fun, more about stress, and never progressing towards your goals. At the very least, there could be the support in place to make it feel less like a job but that doesn't happen. Faction leadership starts off fun, but often devolves into a chore with all kinds of tedium attached. This is what burns people out.
If you're not progressing towards your goals, you're doing something to hinder your own progress in that regard. Nothing about being a leader is ever going to be lax and fun. That isn't what leadership is about. It's a responsibility first and foremost, which yes may even be considered a job. Does it feel like a job to me? Not even in the slightest, because I enjoy what I do. The weight of making decisions that affect the overall direction of the faction is a challenge I welcome. The only stressful part of being a faction leader is having to deal with other faction leaders who feel entitled to greater treatment for their positions, when in fact their position isn't one that's meant to be constantly rewarded for you sitting there.
You're supposed to be a role model for your members, a guide and encourage them to play either by playing with them or giving them some sort of interesting task to do. If you feel that's too much for you, then you shouldn't be a leader. It's going to take time out of your enjoyment and many nights I spend working on roleplay and internal reworks by myself. It is a thankless job, but I do it happily because I care enough to set aside my own desire for personal gain and interest in order to create something fun and interesting for other people to experience.
But if you feel you can't take satisfaction from seeing people enjoy the fruits of your labor and need an extra pat on the back, then again you shouldn't be leading in the first place. Bottom line.
It's painfully apparent that there is not equal treatment between factions. Some are effectively handed access to progression and assets, and even by Developers own admission this is typically because they either are or have links to the Dev team. Very rarely is the case that leaders are doing something wrong, as even the most a abhorrent ones find their factions injected with content come the next patch. It's an oorp game really, which they're very lucky to be gaming well. There are many factions who have stagnated with little to progression in the past several years or support from the Staff, especially in the Omicrons, notable examples including AI and Corsairs - Custodi aren't even being seen as relevant in official eyes because they're deemed "non-canon" for some reason.
First and foremost everyone plays Discovery to have fun, and it's universally agreed that the oorp experience drains that, especially when it comes to leadership. Leadership can a absolutely be fun, and I can cite many experiences where this has been the case, however the majority of leadership is often more headache inducing than it needs to be. If your experience of faction leadership is not like this, cool. I don't think this is reflected by the norm; evidenced by the high rate of burnout. And mind, your faction did just get a content injection.
(07-24-2019, 04:55 PM)Durandal Wrote: I would sincerely like to know why, if most factions are allegedly gaining their activity through AFKing, that we are not receiving more (any) violation reports on the matter.
Because it's difficult, if not impossible to prove it. People don't tend to farm activity in plain sight, they usually go to remote places where nobody can see them. You can't expect people to file reports based on that. The GMs are the only ones who can actually check.
Official factions have way too many privileges and literally no responsibilities, apart from the activity tracker which is so easy to cheat. They have a monopoly on player bases, docking rights, travel rights, npc assets and more. Lawful factions have their claws dug into house governments, which allows them to do even more stuff, like outlawing commodities overnight or collecting extortionate taxes from players. Not to mention the various advantages that player faction IDs bring.
People complaining that managing a faction is a thankless job, what do you expect? Just handouts and no responsibility? If you don't have the time for it, why don't you just quit? Maybe it's because you don't want to lose those privileges. If you think leading a faction is a chore, you're doing it wrong. Once you get your officialdom, you are pretty much untouchable, and if you cannot cumulate 24 hours of activity in a month, maybe you should just leave the faction die.
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Mephistoles
I remember helping NC- getting activity and did missions in Omicron Phi. Some rando PMed me, tellling me to stop AFKing, while my cash rank was literally increasing every five minutes.
(07-24-2019, 04:51 PM)Vendetta Wrote: I beg to differ. I always have fun even when I'm not getting paid to do what I volunteered for. That's kind of why we do it, isn't it? It isn't because we're seeking to gain something but to make the overall experience for those in the faction better. We don't need regular cash rewards to do that.
If you're not enjoying the job you picked, maybe find a different job
To quote Reacher, it's a thankless job. Even by your own admission, it's a job. It shouldn't be a job! There is an element of responsibility for sure, but I don't want it to consume my time and enjoyment in a way that becomes less about fun, more about stress, and never progressing towards your goals. At the very least, there could be the support in place to make it feel less like a job but that doesn't happen. Faction leadership starts off fun, but often devolves into a chore with all kinds of tedium attached. This is what burns people out.
If you're not progressing towards your goals, you're doing something to hinder your own progress in that regard. Nothing about being a leader is ever going to be lax and fun. That isn't what leadership is about. It's a responsibility first and foremost, which yes may even be considered a job. Does it feel like a job to me? Not even in the slightest, because I enjoy what I do. The weight of making decisions that affect the overall direction of the faction is a challenge I welcome. The only stressful part of being a faction leader is having to deal with other faction leaders who feel entitled to greater treatment for their positions, when in fact their position isn't one that's meant to be constantly rewarded for you sitting there.
You're supposed to be a role model for your members, a guide and encourage them to play either by playing with them or giving them some sort of interesting task to do. If you feel that's too much for you, then you shouldn't be a leader. It's going to take time out of your enjoyment and many nights I spend working on roleplay and internal reworks by myself. It is a thankless job, but I do it happily because I care enough to set aside my own desire for personal gain and interest in order to create something fun and interesting for other people to experience.
But if you feel you can't take satisfaction from seeing people enjoy the fruits of your labor and need an extra pat on the back, then again you shouldn't be leading in the first place. Bottom line.
It's painfully apparent that there is not equal treatment between factions. Some are effectively handed access to progression and assets, and even by Developers own admission this is typically because they either are or have links to the Dev team. Very rarely is the case that leaders are doing something wrong, as even the most a abhorrent ones find their factions injected with content come the next patch. It's an oorp game really, which they're very lucky to be gaming well. There are many factions who have stagnated with little to progression in the past several years or support from the Staff, especially in the Omicrons, notable examples including AI and Corsairs - Custodi aren't even being seen as relevant in official eyes because they're deemed "non-canon" for some reason.
First and foremost everyone plays Discovery to have fun, and it's universally agreed that the oorp experience drains that, especially when it comes to leadership. Leadership can a absolutely be fun, and I can cite many experiences where this has been the case, however the majority of leadership is often more headache inducing than it needs to be. If your experience of faction leadership is not like this, cool. I don't think this is reflected by the norm; evidenced by the high rate of burnout. And mind, your faction did just get a content injection.
"Painfully apparent" you say? No, I disagree. There's nothing apparent about it and people simply like to speculate that others have some kind of personal agenda against another or is seeking to gain more than/hinder X faction here because Y. It's petty and pathetic.
That 'content injection' you're talking about? That's another thing that was years in the making and took two months of arguing to get any kind of traction. We're still missing one weapon that is still up for debate between us and the devs. It wasn't just handed to us like you seem to believe. I had to yell at Justin a lot, even for a simple bug fix. If you don't believe me, that's fine. I'm not at liberty to post chat logs of a private and insulting variety here, but nothing has ever been handed to us. We worked for it. We did the roleplay, we did the work, we provided the activity and represented the evolution to justify the developments. We still have stuff to do, and aren't stopping there. Such is the face of faction growth in Discovery. I've seen no such effort on your part.
Yeah, people play Discovery for fun. I even said being a leader is fun to me but your ideas of leadership are wrong. It's why you're sitting here complaining for more as someone already in a solid position with the ability to control quite a lot instead of giving your faction something to do. You'd rather just complain that other people get things. teschy pretty much sums it up.
(07-25-2019, 09:33 AM)teschy Wrote: Official factions have way too many privileges and literally no responsibilities, apart from the activity tracker which is so easy to cheat. They have a monopoly on player bases, docking rights, travel rights, npc assets and more. Lawful factions have their claws dug into house governments, which allows them to do even more stuff, like outlawing commodities overnight or collecting extortionate taxes from players. Not to mention the various advantages that player faction IDs bring.
People complaining that managing a faction is a thankless job, what do you expect? Just handouts and no responsibility? If you don't have the time for it, why don't you just quit? Maybe it's because you don't want to lose those privileges. If you think leading a faction is a chore, you're doing it wrong. Once you get your officialdom, you are pretty much untouchable, and if you cannot cumulate 24 hours of activity in a month, maybe you should just leave the faction die.
It takes time. It takes effort. It takes motivation and you should not under any circumstances be in need of additional motivation in order to motivate others. You're meant to find that from within. This isn't something you're ever going to get paid for unless you count the satisfaction, enjoyment and gratification of others as your just due. I don't think you will, since you'd rather gain from complaining 24/7. That seems to be all you do anyway.
So if you cannot do the job, don't. If you're too burnt out to do it, find someone else who can or as teschy put it: let it die and do something fun if you're not having fun with what you're doing anymore.
Terrible idea for many reasons.
Without wanting to point fingers, throughout discovery history the top activity spot was usually occupied by low-quality powertrading factions that afk trade in the off hours.
Faction activity is heavily biased towards trade factions; niche unlawful factions have zero chance of competing for it no matter how good they are quality-wise.
Not only that, but it's precisely the top activity factions that don't need further assistance. High quality factions with medium-low activity are the ones that need it.
Pure time online is also a terrible way to measure a faction's success, due to afking and the general principle that "ship in space" does not equal "contribution to the 24/7 RP server".
This is more or less the equivalent of turning disco into cash4time. Cash alone does not equate to a good time had. Interesting and exciting ways to spend that time does.
The true measure of a good faction is not just their ability to log, roleplay or even to have a good time, but to inspire others to do so in kind.