(08-28-2019, 06:41 AM)SnakThree Wrote: Those people who break engagement rules either do it intentionally or because they don't know about it.
It is ironic that discussing this issue we are willing to spend more time and write more words than some people are willing to before engagement. This just shows that some people do not respect the rules and other players.
Writing few sentences and waiting ten seconds before engaging is not hard. Set messages or not, giving time for opponent to react to hostility if this is not ongoing fight is not hard. And if it is ongoing fight, then even easier because you just need to wait ten seconds from first hostility RP to engaging.
Let’s say I’m a completely new player and read the rules, where there are no words about 10 seconds, give the opponent a chance to react, etc. Do I have to reread the entire forum before play?
It says right there. Reasonable of time. Which depends on case by case basis. It's just generally acceptable to give at least ten seconds.
The state of war and being on the radar of an enemy warship is not enough as a reason to kill him? The radar works at 15k. While the ship is flying, you have more than 10 seconds to react to anything.
I’m talking about that. This rule can be interpreted in different ways, and so that there is no misunderstanding on the part of new players, old ones and the administration, it should either be changed or something more logical should be done.
(08-28-2019, 06:41 AM)SnakThree Wrote: Those people who break engagement rules either do it intentionally or because they don't know about it.
It is ironic that discussing this issue we are willing to spend more time and write more words than some people are willing to before engagement. This just shows that some people do not respect the rules and other players.
Writing few sentences and waiting ten seconds before engaging is not hard. Set messages or not, giving time for opponent to react to hostility if this is not ongoing fight is not hard. And if it is ongoing fight, then even easier because you just need to wait ten seconds from first hostility RP to engaging.
Let’s say I’m a completely new player and read the rules, where there are no words about 10 seconds, give the opponent a chance to react, etc. Do I have to reread the entire forum before play?
It says right there. Reasonable of time. Which depends on case by case basis. It's just generally acceptable to give at least ten seconds.
The state of war and being on the radar of an enemy warship is not enough as a reason to kill him? The radar works at 15k. While the ship is flying, you have more than 10 seconds to react to anything.
I’m talking about that. This rule can be interpreted in different ways, and so that there is no misunderstanding on the part of new players, old ones and the administration, it should either be changed or something more logical should be done.
You see an enemy, you drop two lines with atlest 10 seconds inbetween and start shooting.
How is that not clear?
What about cases when hostile is uncloaking. Or comes via jump gate. Or via trade lanes. Rule is fine as it is. Of you are incapable of following this simple rule then perhaps you need to rethink what you are doing here.
Quote:. For example, now I am developing a game (I am studying in this field) and I needed to study the setting of war. I have never noticed in war games that people who are at war attack each other with warnings. This is stupid for war, because even one word will allow other opponents to react and kill you before you attack anyone. Yes, I agree that we have a space simulator here and the reaction time does not always need as much as the game requires
You don't need a degree and a masters in history to know people at war didn't warn eachother when attempting a stab in the eye.
You fundamentally don't understand that this is a roleplay server and not a pvp server. When you roleplay your character or faction in a war the other side is supposed to do the same, which can't be done if all you do is /1 /2 and shoot as soon as you are in range. Consider it a romantic approach to real conflict if you want: it's what is expected from you as deference to your fellow players.
You give people such as I a bad look and reputation by attempting this sorry excuse for sanction whining. Fundamentally you don't comprehend "PvP=RP". That doesn't mean that you fullfil your role as a player from a hostile faction by engaging anything red as quickly and overwhelmingly as possible, acting as if in real life war. What it means is that if your roleplay is to fight against people and attempt to beat them much like a warmonger disregarding their attempts to be peaceful, and this is just as good of a roleplay as talking to your miner friend while he fills your cargo with ore, or the hostile player in front of you in a border system between factions.
PvP=RP does not mean shoot = roleplay. It means hostility and warmongery = roleplay. The fact that I from all people have to explain this tells a story.
(06-19-2016, 12:06 PM)Mao Wrote: inb4 Sirius gets renamed to XTF.
Rule clear enough state that opponent should have possibility to react. Be aware about you certainly. 15k its not all radars, its not target lock range, which hardcoded as 10k. Also freelancer netcode is shit what add more factors about how people see you. Lock range (also this is nightmare missile range as well) pretty good for starting communication, since you can see exact IFF at least, and be sure this is your enemy, and not just fart of messed rephacks (yes, this is mod to old game, most rules originated from its game-mechanics flaws).
Quote:. For example, now I am developing a game (I am studying in this field) and I needed to study the setting of war. I have never noticed in war games that people who are at war attack each other with warnings. This is stupid for war, because even one word will allow other opponents to react and kill you before you attack anyone. Yes, I agree that we have a space simulator here and the reaction time does not always need as much as the game requires
You don't need a degree and a masters in history to know people at war didn't warn eachother when attempting a stab in the eye.
You fundamentally don't understand that this is a roleplay server and not a pvp server. When you roleplay your character or faction in a war the other side is supposed to do the same, which can't be done if all you do is /1 /2 and shoot as soon as you are in range. Consider it a romantic approach to real conflict if you want: it's what is expected from you as deference to your fellow players.
You give people such as I a bad look and reputation by attempting this sorry excuse for sanction whining. Fundamentally you don't comprehend "PvP=RP". That doesn't mean that you fullfil your role as a player from a hostile faction by engaging anything red as quickly and overwhelmingly as possible, acting as if in real life war. What it means is that if your roleplay is to fight against people and attempt to beat them much like a warmonger disregarding their attempts to be peaceful, and this is just as good of a roleplay as talking to your miner friend while he fills your cargo with ore, or the hostile player in front of you in a border system between factions.
PvP=RP does not mean shoot = roleplay. It means hostility and warmongery = roleplay. The fact that I from all people have to explain this tells a story.
I propose to do something with this, as this is not correct.
If you continue to become personal, then I will answer the same.
I said that it’s not difficult for me to observe all this and I always give RP before an attack.
I mean the general concept of this rule to change.
I have already said above that if new and old players are warned and sanctioned by this rule, then it is not the players who want to violate it, and the rule is not interpreted correctly.
(08-28-2019, 09:05 AM)SnakThree Wrote: What about cases when hostile is uncloaking. Or comes via jump gate. Or via trade lanes. Rule is fine as it is. Of you are incapable of following this simple rule then perhaps you need to rethink what you are doing here.
That’s what I’m saying that there are cases, they were everywhere, in war or piracy. And these points must be prescribed separately in the rules so that there is strict compliance.
(08-28-2019, 11:54 AM)Decktare Wrote: I propose to do something with this, as this is not correct.
If you continue to become personal, then I will answer the same.
I said that it’s not difficult for me to observe all this and I always give RP before an attack.
I mean the general concept of this rule to change.
I have already said above that if new and old players are warned and sanctioned by this rule, then it is not the players who want to violate it, and the rule is not interpreted correctly.
Old players understand what the rule says perfectly fine. New players may think the rule is vague and require further explaining, which is why almost all new players that break this rule end up being bastilled until they show up in the forums to clear up the isssue, at which point they are released again.
While the rule should be explained better, your arguments are poorly made and wrongly focused, and you use terms such as "PvP=RP" that you don't understand.
If you take it personal or not it's up to you.
(06-19-2016, 12:06 PM)Mao Wrote: inb4 Sirius gets renamed to XTF.
(08-28-2019, 09:05 AM)SnakThree Wrote: What about cases when hostile is uncloaking. Or comes via jump gate. Or via trade lanes. Rule is fine as it is. Of you are incapable of following this simple rule then perhaps you need to rethink what you are doing here.
That’s what I’m saying that there are cases, they were everywhere, in war or piracy. And these points must be prescribed separately in the rules so that there is strict compliance.
We have this:
3.6 Attacking without Roleplay. Players must be given reasonable time to react to hostilities.
Covers all cases. Just drop a few sentences and give at least ten seconds before engaging targets.
It is so easy I don't understand how some people can't understand it.
(08-28-2019, 11:54 AM)Decktare Wrote: I propose to do something with this, as this is not correct.
If you continue to become personal, then I will answer the same.
I said that it’s not difficult for me to observe all this and I always give RP before an attack.
I mean the general concept of this rule to change.
I have already said above that if new and old players are warned and sanctioned by this rule, then it is not the players who want to violate it, and the rule is not interpreted correctly.
Old players understand what the rule says perfectly fine. New players may think the rule is vague and require further explaining, which is why almost all new players that break this rule end up being bastilled until they show up in the forums to clear up the isssue, at which point they are released again.
While the rule should be explained better, your arguments are poorly made and wrongly focused, and you use terms such as "PvP=RP" that you don't understand.
If you take it personal or not it's up to you.
That's why we don't have new players, they are in Bastilia.