(10-12-2019, 08:46 PM)Durandal Wrote: @Avalanche Really sorry I hijacked your post, man. I've been trying to get a moderator to split the thread but everyone seems to be asleep today.
No no, you misunderstand I feel. I am happy you did. I had my old topic answered and now you've ignited useful and interesting discussion!
(10-12-2019, 05:45 PM)Durandal Wrote: The problems I pointed out, save for a properly written summary, are people problems. I can't solve people, none of us can. Something about leading horses to water and all that.
The main "people problem" for solving or at least mitigating the (mostly new) player retention issue that you correctly pointed out, has always been the leadership's inability or unwillingness to perform even the simplest tasks to benefit new players, from 4.84 to present day:
- keeping rules up to date, easily accessible/understandable, and actually written down
- putting basic tools that help new people ingame, such as explanation of rules, game mechanics, and lore
- offering advice and advertising careers/places to new players "IRP" as bar rumors
- simplifying the ridiculously over-complicated mining system with a few easily done adjustments, and re-balancing it so people aren't encouraged to make multiple unrecognizable and anonymous no-rp mining chars
- focusing activity onto fewer routes and hubs instead of still spreading it out as if we still had areas with "too much" activity like in 4.85
- endorsing one written down "honor system" convention that doesn't doom noobs to lose every single fight, that people can freely choose to follow or not follow (and then not expect its protection either), instead of letting everyone create their personal interpretation of "being excellent" and encouraging them to scream when that gets violated
- creating a staff voting system that safeguards against power abuse and still lets creating a larger staff lighten the workload on individuals
- making player requests more transparent
- making a public code of conduct for staff and official faction leaders so mistakes are avoided before they happen, people even know what is expected of them, and can be made accountable when slips do happen
Every time leaders are asked to address those or offered help for doing them, the answer is almost always the same:
"Oh but this wont solve all of disco's problems 100%, so were're not going to anything. Now go forth into the game, create activity, make friends, be excellent, and help new people. But we're not going to move a finger to help you with that, nor let you do things that fall under our great responsibility."
Addressing the listed issues always has lower priority compared to things that make or keep leaders popular with the leet circles that are relevant to getting or keeping a staff position. Those things range from endless re-balancing of aces' favorite gear, handing out SRPs or faction goodies, or simply not offending them by daring to change something someone made, or work with someone they hate for one reason or another.
Hearing "we really cant do anything" over and over again when there is so much that CAN be done, but isn't being done for the pettiest of reasons, is really infuriating.
Only if drama and griefing is avoided. Both left a very sour taste in my mouth and left me just as bitter and aggressive as the people peddling it before I quit to sort myself out.
2) Is it accessible?
Not really. Freelancer is hard to acquire legally, the steps needed to get Discovery running well increase as new hardware/OS require more and more workarounds. The forum's sheer amount of content looks imposing, as does the Wiki, only to find out there's also that "DSCore" site as well. All of this hides the fact that there are only about 30 people active on the server, on average. Most factions do not have any persistent presence in the game short of a few precious hours per day or week, so it's very difficult to interact with them there, which pushes you back to the forum. But then on the forum you discover a lot of things are being left unsaid because now it's occurring in a myriad of discord channels. Toss in the baggage of personality cults and disputes, magnified as the playerbase shrinks, and there's a leftover bad reputation to deal with. I've heard that it's calmed down a bit since I was last here, but I have yet to experience enough to make an informed opinion.
3) Is it rewarding?
On one hand there's still this aura of "a galaxy of opportunity," but it's buried very deep beneath the status quo of what the game and the community has become. Not all of that is for the worse, either, but it is what it is. It takes work to make it fun, and that work can all too often be wasted. So far for me, it's 95% boredom and 5% reward, but I'll take that over 95% frustration and 5% reward which is how I remembered it.
4) Can it be interesting with minimal interaction?
No. By moving the onus of worldbuilding onto events and player-driven decisions, there's nothing worth seeing that isn't touched by other players, and their absence also means a lack of things worth seeing. The wiki and DSCore, while delightful tools, have removed a ton of the mystery and ambiguity of the setting, as have the accumulated experiences of all old-hand players who know every nook and cranny. Instead of that one old salt in the back who knows where all the jump holes are, everyone can just fire up a browser and know them all instantly. It was like this years ago, and I don't see it changing now.
5) Can it be interesting with social interaction?
This is the only way it can be. The combat system is repetitive, the economy isn't very dynamic, bases are hideously expensive to do alone and don't result in a profit of any kind. When it's all said and done, nothing you do matters unless it's for and with other people. It makes it very difficult to be a loner, and it makes it very boring when nobody is around, but even for all that it still has its moments. The only thing that matters is whether or not those moments are justification enough to keep playing, and that's for each person to decide.
(10-12-2019, 04:39 PM)Durandal Wrote: - members with a better understanding of roleplay and a more solid command of the English language, but they aren't flying and won't fly as long as their leaders make the game to be about capturing the next system or base, or getting the next ship implemented in game. A pair of [LN] pilots on patrol or a trio of Core| sitting around Freeport 11 could make all the difference in the world, but nowadays people only log when ordered to fight, and log off immediately after.
i didnt read most things in this thread and i will not continue after this (potentially but i usually go back on my word in cases like these im just saying that for dramatic effect) so im going to comment on this:
discordman Wrote:log to fight 10 ships in Liberty, mostt of them caps, and their only fighter runs and docks XD
This game is so fun
-said recently with plenty more awful stuff that sounds absurd but its true because it happened to me countless times too lmao
people only log for fights because of this
why stay logged on when in 99% of cases the only type of """"""""""""""""interaction"""""""""""""""""" you can get is this
actual, good, honest-to-god roleplay interaction on this server is on the verge of extinction, happening only if you play this game 24/7 or if you are extremely lucky when you find that one dude out of the 34 who are online that can type coherent english (and lets not forget the groups of people who make it their mission to exclude everyone out of their little roleplay bubble who probably hurt the server more than every other scumbag combined)
i contributed to this myself, not gonna lie, since for a while i got really childlishly pissy and all i did was sit in conn and complain missing all my ROLEPLAYS and it was a mistake but nowadays even when i DO get (good) roleplay interaction i probably know the person behind the character(and they most definitely know them back in that case) which takes away part of the old experience, and i also always have that nagging feeling in the back of my head that im probably going to end up being bored half to death by the end/midway point of that interaction anyway
the people you are referring to stopped playing because nowadays, its impossible to log a random ship, of a random id, in a random system, fly around for a few minutes, meet a person, talk to them, have more people converge on that area causing even MORE people to get there eventually boiling into a big dynamic fight that is cool and good
you cant do that anymore, because:
1) everyone knows everyone, and everyone hates everyone (i mean there are people who only play here to ruin that one guy/groups' day, so)
2) the people who nobody knows either dont know english, cant/dont want to roleplay or cant/dont want to partake in pvp
3) theres just not enough people, at any point of the day
im one of those people who plays for a few weeks then goes away for a month or two and then starts playing again
each time theres fewer players and more pobs and fewer roleplay interactions and more lag and people trying to build their sand castles bigger than everyone elses even though all the sand has washed off into the sea many many years ago
I recently lead a whole bunch of new people to this community. If they see this as the top thread they probably won't stick around. Whilst people are complaining they're not playing the game. The people enjoying the game are silent, as with every gaming community, because they play the game and log off. The game doesn't harass them in their downtime.
Food for thought.
It is fun and accessible, you just need players to mentor players.
THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)
Guys. We need to simplify things and keep freelancer style alive - fluid environment, simple ideas. We need fresh start for Discovery as whole.
Amount of lore is overwhelming, it must be consolidated and canonized (whenever applicable) via in-game rumors and descriptions. Existing forum lore should be mostly archived, it is hard to go through all possible plots and comms right now.
Server characters must be wiped. Economy is not healthy - we have veteran players who have amassed vast amounts of SC & equip, their activity is not linked to economy mostly. Economy was important activity driver before, just as important as pvp.
New wave of promotion activities should occur. Maybe in a different format. Imagine youtube video with journalist flying all over Liberty and reporting current state of affairs - that could be quite a showcase for RP side of the mod. This could be intriguing. Freelancer is quite old game, people nowadays might not even know about it. Freelancer's appeal lies in atmosphere and simple, yet skill-reliant gameplay.
I believe that we can expect a surge of activity when people that play feel that their actions matter, that they can challenge existing "elite" and build their own factions through collaboration and effort.
Perhaps something could be done to influence culture of the community too, but certainly implementing new rules wouldn't work. People come here to relax, to have fun and to let their fantasy loose. Less rules, less exceptions, generalize things - it is easier to understand and comply with a set of guidelines rather than with a huge rulebook.
(10-12-2019, 06:50 PM)Silverlight Wrote: I'm not sure a keen advocate for meta/powergaming should be giving tips on how to repair the community
(10-12-2019, 07:21 PM)Reeves Wrote: When people say things like that about you, it isn't coming from a place of cynicism it's just genuine caution given your track record being what it is.......
(10-12-2019, 07:11 PM)Riehl Wrote: The cynicism is the problem, Silverlight.
Sorry to derail here but I ***** up and I want to fix it. I was just going to do this over PM but that wouldn't be equal.
Reeves is right, typically I would agree but to be honest so is Dunc, my comment was out of order (regardless of his previous actions) because they are just that and I do need try and judge people less on ***** they've done in the past so, sorry about that and I hope that if you are turning over a leaf I wish you the best in your endeavour.
Edit: sorry for derail* no need to reply.
The worst enemy of a good plan, is the dream of a perfect one.