(10-12-2019, 04:39 PM)Durandal Wrote: So if you really, really want to help? Get out there and lead by example and be the change you want to see. PM the nobodies on the Discovery Discord - there are hundreds of them - and ask if they still play. If not, ask why. Get them to fly with you. Be that group sitting around roleplaying casually. Be the people helping new players in Pennsylvania and sticking with them, getting their contact details, and bringing them into the fold. Advertise, certainly, but make sure that there is something here and that the lights are still on when they get here.
I really don't think turning a world like freelancer's into an uninteresting reflection of real world legislation and complexity is ever going to be perceived as fun or received well, nor should it. People should play factions out of an interest for what the faction is and its relevant themes.
I don't see a fifteen page thesis doing much to stimulate interest or activity. The only thing it does prove is that you're intelligent, so hopefully you're capable of seeing the point being made rather than being stubborn. I will admit I'm exaggerating the amount of pages, but regardless it isn't producing any quantifiable impact.
I think I speak for quite a few people when I say that I'd like to see vanilla factions actually just work as intended rather than trying to reinvent the wheel only to end up breaking the vehicle.
@"Anton Okunev"
One close thing to malta is latin amrican drug cartels. Having the same source of income and style of actions. Russian "mafia" are basically giant industrial clans, quite common and normal thing for the eastern europe. And no, you can't compare that to Malta. Russian "mafia" is only a thing in american movies.
@Mr.Cardaminum
"Fleet" yes and what? Cartels got forces that are allowing them to fight armies, without being a state. I will repeat myself. The fact that Outcasts are having power is based upon drug money, on which they buy things. Not the industrial base. Yes, they have a shipyard, IMG got shipyard too, doesn't make them a House or anything close to ti.
Freelancer is not a sociological, political or economy simulator though. In vanilla concepts, all Houses but Liberty were supposed to be a monarchist. Inherit XIX style aesthetics. Does it make sense? No. Does it have to? No. I don't know how are you trying to imply that the laws of post-industrial society apply in this universe. Then again, you imply and refer to the Oucasts are the House, which is not. Not by lore, not by rules, not by common sense.
You are taking and washing off all unique things that Outcast lore is providing, trying to replace it with very generic House RP. Which is again, repeating the path of Maltese Republic, just on the lite mode.
I mean you keep going on and on with parallels and theories based on real life. That is not justifying switch within basic NPC faction lore. Everyone on those forums can spam a few dozens of similar theories countering yours, and it's not even a matter of discussion. It does not lead to anything.
I really don't think turning a world like freelancer's into an uninteresting reflection of real world legislation and complexity is ever going to be perceived as fun or received well, nor should it. People should play factions out of an interest for what the faction is and its relevant themes.
I don't see a fifteen page thesis doing much to stimulate interest or activity. The only thing it does prove is that you're intelligent, so hopefully you're capable of seeing the point being made rather than being stubborn. I will admit I'm exaggerating the amount of pages, but regardless it isn't producing any quantifiable impact.
I think I speak for quite a few people when I say that I'd like to see vanilla factions actually just work as intended rather than trying to reinvent the wheel only to end up breaking the vehicle.
Woaw, never thought I'd go out of my way to agree with someone, but yes. This.
The game should be:
1) Is it enjoyable?
2) Is it accessible?
3) Is it rewarding?
4) Can it be interesting with minimal interaction?
5) Can it be interesting with social interaction?
If you can answer all 5 of these with a yes, then you're doing something right.
I would argue question 2 is the most valuable one here though.
(10-12-2019, 08:05 PM)Sicicega Wrote: @"Anton Okunev"
One close thing to malta is latin amrican drug cartels. Having the same source of income and style of actions. Russian "mafia" are basically giant industrial clans, quite common and normal thing for the eastern europe. And no, you can't compare that to Malta. Russian "mafia" is only a thing in american movies.
@Mr.Cardaminum
"Fleet" yes and what? Cartels got forces that are allowing them to fight armies, without being a state. I will repeat myself. The fact that Outcasts are having power is based upon drug money, on which they buy things. Not the industrial base. Yes, they have a shipyard, IMG got shipyard too, doesn't make them a House or anything close to ti.
Freelancer is not a sociological, political or economy simulator though. In vanilla concepts, all Houses but Liberty were supposed to be a monarchist. Inherit XIX style aesthetics. Does it make sense? No. Does it have to? No. I don't know how are you trying to imply that the laws of post-industrial society apply in this universe. Then again, you imply and refer to the Oucasts are the House, which is not. Not by lore, not by rules, not by common sense.
You are taking and washing off all unique things that Outcast lore is providing, trying to replace it with very generic House RP. Which is again, repeating the path of Maltese Republic, just on the lite mode.
I mean you keep going on and on with parallels and theories based on real life. That is not justifying switch within basic NPC faction lore. Everyone on those forums can spam a few dozens of similar theories countering yours, and it's not even a matter of discussion. It does not lead to anything.
I can support my "theories" with real theory of international relations. I can even link books and articles on the issue. Does it make sense? Maybe, for you no. Does it have to? No. Yes, it is an old game that does not have to be in line with reality. However, I see no ill to put some grim realism into it to the limit that is allowed by the static game engine. Does it make sense? Maybe, for you no. Does it have to? No. Also, for some reason it is this quasi-generic RP that attracts people nowadays. Maybe, because it makes more sense to them and the times when OC of vanilla were interesting have passed. It is a player-driven community, at least in name, so if players are interested in this kind of things - then so be it. I do not really see personally anything exceptional in the vibe of vanilla OC put into disco where there are factions like Core, Auxesia, Coalition, and whatnot. Yet again - if you are up for that kind of RP - do it, make it, generate content, attract players and I will gladly give the laurels of Malta's leadership and go to play some other faction or some other game as OC would lose their appeal to me. After all, it is a matter of taste. So far we have people who enjoy this kind of RP, so we will adhere to it.
@Mr.Cardaminum
Yeah, now explain why the Colombian, for example, drug cartel would be integrated in a modern international relationship model. Think why it's not the case, it may help. If you still think that these forums is a place for college lectures.
Quote:One close thing to malta is latin amrican drug cartels. Having the same source of income and style of actions. Russian "mafia" are basically giant industrial clans, quite common and normal thing for the eastern europe. And no, you can't compare that to Malta. Russian "mafia" is only a thing in american movies.
I'm sorry, but those clans rised indeed out from mafia mixed with ex-party nomenclature. That why i mean, border between mafia and state very thin. If there is no inner suprresion, mafia just become state.
This is why its not correct compare supressed by goverment,existing as inner shadow strucure mafia to mafia-organised state, you trying to bend opinion in your favor use this.
If we look on cartels, Pablo Escobar did become a alternate member of Congress of Colombia and tried to become a president, where he failed.
Its how it work in reality, strong mafia become a goverment, and kinda stupid to think that Malta didnt passed all this way already.
Quote:Yeah, now explain why the Colombian, for example, drug cartel would be integrated in a modern international relationship model.
Implying that modern socio-economical models dont count shade eco and informal structures. This is not 1900th, hello.
(10-12-2019, 08:24 PM)Sicicega Wrote: @Mr.Cardaminum
Yeah, now explain why the Colombian, for example, drug cartel would be integrated in a modern international relationship model. Think why it's not the case, it may help. If you still think that these forums is a place for college lectures.
Think of colonial Brazil in 1700s. Then think of Brazil now. Does Brazil, an ex-colony producing a range of goods associated with undeveloped country, play a role in modern politics? This is similar to how Malta has evolved, or at least should have over 800 years. It is not a Colombial cartel. It is rather a state albeit a rogue one.
To remind of the movements in international relations - think of Hesbollah that participated in international relations. Think of unrecognised Taiwan that does not have embassies but "representative offices". Think of Afghanistan. The principal difference is that you see Malta solely as a cartel or a mix thereof, I see it as a state that was organised by cartels - a plutocracy, one can say.
I already got the point that no side can prove its point to the other, the discussion long being off-topic and devolving into demagogy. So I will stop on this point.
@"Anton Okunev"
@Mr.Cardaminum
Okay finally, I will go do something more productive as well. As my concluding point I can only repeat myself though.
(10-12-2019, 08:05 PM)Sicicega Wrote: You are taking and washing off all unique things that Outcast lore is providing, trying to replace it with very generic House RP. Which is again, repeating the path of Maltese Republic, just on the lite mode.
I mean you keep going on and on with parallels and theories based on real life. That is not justifying switch within basic NPC faction lore. Everyone on those forums can spam a few dozens of similar theories countering yours, and it's not even a matter of discussion. It does not lead to anything.
Best of luck playing Outcasts, I wish you to be a threat to everything that is within your ZOI and make a lot of money selling drugs. Don't become a corporation or another generic boring government.