(01-07-2020, 12:06 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: The Soviets killed 20 million people.
Barely worth mentioning when you put it against the number of people killed by capitalism throughout the centuries, a number so large it cannot even be calculated. Keep in mind that that number of 20 million also includes those who lost their lives in wars with capitalist/fascist nations, as well as those who died of starvation due to sanctions.
Of course there are many good arguments to be made against totalitarian states in general though, many things done under the name of communism are no joke and horrific crimes against humanity. For instance the killing fields in Cambodia, or the deal the soviets made with Germany in ww2 regarding Poland. These evil deeds are no less evil than what for instance King Leopold of Belgium did in Congo (10 million death ), or the 35 million needless deaths in late Victorian India, to just name a few examples. Communist flavored totalitarianism as the big bad boogieman is no longer a threat in our current day world save from North Korea. Other communist countries such as Vietnam are doing ... quite well actually. So why is it that whenever Communism is mentioned people freak out and panic, while capitalism, another economic system drenched in the blood of millions of innocents, and a system that is actually still killing people at large today does not provoke the same knee jerk reaction ? Because when it comes to Communism, and the examples of it that are on our minds, we are observing it from the outside. The actual theory of communism, Marxism is about a "stateless, classless society in which humanity is liberated from wage labour". Ofcourse, this sounds utopian and scetchy from our point of view, as all being citizens in a capitalist society, a society that is our status quo and that we consider as normal. But it is hardly the Stalinism and Maoism of killing millions, at contrary, Marxist communism, the original communism, is about making the lives of everyone better. To enjoy the technological advancements we make as a species, not only as the individuals on top. How this theory is by definition worse than capitalism, a classist system where you are either at the top enjoying all the freedom, luxury, liberty and wealth this world has to offer, or at the bottom, as a wage slave working to make things happen for a class you will never be a part off, is beyond me.
I know that I probably offend some people by stating the obvious, but I feel that it's worth to have a more nuanced look at this.
Happy new year my intergalactic comrades, even those who violently disagree with me.
It's a funny thing, to criticize failures of a system that never worked as it was intended to, living in another system that sure as hell doesn't work as it's intended to. As a side note, my mother was one of the people marching with thousands in the '80 in Poland to end socialist era there and organize free elections and after years she complains about how liberal capitalism turned out and, believe me, she's not alone. And they were so hyped at first, oh me, oh my. I'd like to point out as an example that current government in my country is using similar language and framing as socialist party did, just cutting out the words „communism” and „socialism” as they have bad associations. World works in mysterious ways.
Also, it's ridiculous this old argument about the number of casualties is still treated as valid when it's being used to criticise communism but when you point out this nevertheless huge number is pretty small in comparison with casualties caused by shortcomings of capitalism, all of a sudden you're into discussion „who comitted better genocide”. Good God, no, no, nope. None of these is better. All I'm saying and seeing is that if we're talking about the failures of this particular system, we could really focus on other thigs. „First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye”.
I'm actually slightly left-leaning but it's always really funny bringing the stats up and watching what comes next (not to try to justify the casualties of either system).
On another note, isn't Soviet Christmas music an oxymoron? Given that Christmas is both a religious and very capitalist holiday.
(01-07-2020, 07:14 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: I'm actually slightly left-leaning but it's always really funny bringing the stats up and watching what comes next (not to try to justify the casualties of either system).
On another note, isn't Soviet Christmas music an oxymoron? Given that Christmas is both a religious and very capitalist holiday.
i'll educate you by sending you a link to wikipedia