You could balance it to target similar profits that ores do currently in similar amount of time.
This suggestion would potentially solve the current "problem" with rebalanced ore economy of non-existing shorter trade routes.
Basically you would then have short hauling routes (mining field to mining POB / smelter or mining POB to mining smelter) and long hauling routes (mining smelter to the consumer planet / station).
The goal should be to reduce the overall need for lots of long routes and make the balance like this:
- short routes
quick to do
relatively safe, as you would always be near a dock point
require teamwork for best efficiency (miner + transport)
massive profit with repetition
- long routes
slow to do
high risk, because they go through systems full of pirates + the refined goods would be much more profitable to pirate
require teamwork for best efficiency and security (miners + trader + escort)
(06-11-2020, 04:19 PM)Silverlight Wrote: ...
This would create a massive credit inflation (as in too easy) and would also make the problem Karst outlined happen.
This is all hypothetical anyway, because no one will try to change the POB scripts that much and no one will make the effort to completely rebalance the ore-economy.
There's alot of effort going into the eco dev for Aftermath though so I wouldn't say no one will make the effort
As I see it, the problem is inflation. If you start popping out stuff that's worth 4x more than the stuff currently in "circulation", it will devaluate vital assets, including but not limited to ships, guns, equipment, component commodities. Ergo balancing would require making everything 4x more cost intensive, which is not only daunting but also a tall order to expect new players to deal with. Players who're not interested in POB related gameplay would be at severe disadvantage, at least as far as the original proposal goes.
POBs as they are now are actually quite good at money making if you know what you're doing. I wouldn't tinker with them too much.
However a module that converts a certain amount of ore into the product of this amount (say x2) in refined ore (eg. 1 cu of gold ore -> 2 cu of gold) might be a neat functionality. But only if you keep the value of the commodity as it is, so you'd be converting ore that sells well far away into simething cheaper but more of it and maybe sells well a wee bit closer. Better minds than mine might figure out the right balance. But the more I think of it the more it's just buying stuff from NPC bases and selling elsewhere.
Also, piracy is by no means a con - it's a RP choice and it makes a chunk of server activity. Plus, Space is dangerous, deal with it
Remember Guys I threw this out as a Idea for all of us to work on, and see if it is something the server wants, and how to do it. my first post was just a Basic Outline.
the Cost of Gold you by in Dublin, New london or anywhere would not raise up its buying and selling cost by much maybe 3-4k on buying and selling, should be Same over all Profit as it is now Buying and selling both should be raised by same amount, just makes it like it should be, you mine you smelt and end up with the end Product. if it is bought anywhere other than a POB the buying price will be about 3-4k Higher. so from a POB 3-4k Cheaper.
Remember I sure don't have all the Ideas. that's why I posted it as a IDEA not a finished thing. this would not make much difference in overall Game play but primarily make bases be able to make money. remember they way things are now Bases eat money like a PIG. with all the stuff you have to buy in order to build maintain and make things, it is a Never ending eating machine. this way if a base can make money then it can help pay for itself maybe considering a base is charged like 600 Mil to even be built maybe even yearly cost, and that's just from one faction. most likely it will not pay for itself but the fun would be to try.
everyone else gets there wishes for this and that over time, how about trying to help POB owners a bit because of fair play.
But I would like to hear more first from players about how this could be tweaked first, I really want Positive Feedback on this and Ideas and Tweaks how this could be done.
Just like in real life a POB is like a General Store, they want to provide a Service to the Public. so in RP Just like real life a POB Business wants to make money to help cover Taxes, Contracts and other Fees (They have to raise Prices of Items they sell).
Bases really Never make any Money
Please remember the base never makes anything as it is for everyone using their base, they mine they drop off ore and log on and Buy the ore back when there is no one to mine for them. the point is that the base never makes anything (Zero Profit) that's so not right!
by doing it the way I'm talking about they would raise the cost per 5k load maybe 1 to 2 million per load above Miners cost as a storage fee. Now remember some bases have to pay out around 1.2Billion per year for 2 Faction Contracts just in finances alone to have permission to keep the base there Unharmed, That doesn't even scratch what it cost to keep the base up and any other fees. and a base bringing in Money would sure help some of those expenses.
Closing Comment
I don't think that people that do not run POB's really know how much running a POB cost, and really the endless time involved in Building and keeping it up and General day to day operational Cost and endless time to operate. (So the Deck is already stacked against them before they even deploy it) So I think a lot of these NON POB players people only see is Oh I plant a free base anywhere I want, and they don't know about all the charges and fees listed above.
Everyone Please help to develop this Idea! or at least Please only give Constructive Criticism if nothing else. POB's need this, to be able to survive in today's Strife!
The problem is, this sort of rough speculation isn't really productive. It's easy to say "let's add factory modules in which you can profitably combine two ores", but the hard part is figuring out how to actually balance it.
If you really want this to happen, try going through the list of ores and figuring out exactly how they could be combined in a way that doesn't massively favor particular factions or houses, nor creates a ton of additional possible routes that go against streamlining trade.
I think the concept, PoB's refining ore, is an excellent idea. Anything to make PoB's more RP focussed.
Hope it can work someday. Imagine not having a place that buys raw ore but refined ore. That would make things interesting.
Also it would make a rich target for thieves and other low-life scum like .:j:. and Molly and... wait... that can't be right! I meant the OTHER lowlife and scum.
(06-13-2020, 09:53 AM)Karst Wrote: The problem is, this sort of rough speculation isn't really productive. It's easy to say "let's add factory modules in which you can profitably combine two ores", but the hard part is figuring out how to actually balance it.
If you really want this to happen, try going through the list of ores and figuring out exactly how they could be combined in a way that doesn't massively favor particular factions or houses, nor creates a ton of additional possible routes that go against streamlining trade.
First of all We would NEVER be adding 2 Ores together, we would be changing lets say Gold Ore to Gold, Aluminum Ore into Aluminum and so on.
but if you brought Aluminum Ore to a Gold Refining POB it would smelt it down into Refined Aluminum.
Refinery Output
The refinery would only convert any Ore that already has a Refined Metal or substance in the game. If you mined lets say Furs there is no Counterpart so smelter would maybe look at you kind of funny lol
Smelting Process
You would need something to the Mix for a Smelter to Operate, lets say you Process 2 Ore you would need 1 Unit of lets say Lanthanum because it is sold almost everywhere and is cheap, as far as I know it really doesn't have a use. anyways with the refinery smelting Process it would take 2 Raw Ore and 1 Lanthanum to make one Unit of Refined Gold. you want the 5000 Units of Lanthanum to convert 10k of Ore into 5,000 Units of Refined metal your going to be taking from the base.
PLEASE HELP, This is OUR WORK.
Please remember this is only my Starting Idea. But (OUR Work) WE CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN, of course with the DEV Teams Help of course
Remember I need your Help to make this work, I'm trying to use whats in the game and setup already and use that. with as little work for the DEV team as we have to.