Quote:I hate people wanting bombers to be incredibly good at everything, and I especially hate people wanting bombers to instakill everything that isn't a big dick capital ship.
Oh im sorry? You hate people because they have different opinions? You have discredited yourself and may be excused from a discussion. You might want to google what that means also.
Bombers should use bomber guns, like scorchers and neutralizers, at all 4 slots. Those guns being called bombs is wrong. Real bombs should replace nukes, as nukes are too weak for bomber targets. Bombs should be dummy antimatter mines, exclusive to bombers. No guidance, just drop and see them roll straight forward, make a distance and watch big BOOM. Big and evil. And also EMP version of bombs.
Snac and asuras are abominations. They always were (I liked them however). Missile launchers should be there, on their hardpoints. What missiles? About that I have no idea, sorry. Maybe ones that GBs have, just shorter supply.
Anyone jousting a bomber deserves to be instakilled with a snac, or nova, you don't joust a bomber with a nova, you don't joust a bomber period, nor should you ever, if you're in a snub, fighting something you can out turn, there is absolutely no reason to slam into their face and cry about getting 1shot.
(08-07-2020, 12:55 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: I see bombers beating HF and VHF all the time ?
I find it unlikely you "always see heavy fighters (a class that is now meant solely for turning) and VHFs (most of which still turn) die to bombers" considering you strictly fly capitals and nobody flies bombers on the regular. You have proof of that claim I'd love to see it, my guess, you either don't see this at all and are claiming you do, or you saw a new player attack a bomber in a snub and get wiped cause they had no idea what they were doing, which doesn't happen a lot either.
Omicega is right, bombers are insanely slow, the only good ones are the heavy bombers, and they're still far slower than any snubcraft, and with only 4 guns across the board, they can't even come close to dishing enough gun damage out to kill a snub unless said snub has an entire lack of brain cells or experience.
The snac was nerfed in a time where there was an abundant amount of new players that had no clue what they were doing and got 1shot by something they barely understood, so they punished the community that had been there a long time for the sake of new players that "might" stick around and "very unlikely might" not be toxic like most of the community still is. Which is ridiculous.
The argument that bombers shouldn't be able to defend themselves against fighters is a stupid one made by people that don't want to have to adapt to something new entering the meta. In bomber's current state there is essentially no counterplay to fighters, except the usual mine/CD combo which isn't that hard to avoid by just dropping a CD on the bomber. When there is no counterplay to something, the fun is zapped right out of it, people are forced to sit there and do absolutely nothing because there is nothing they can do. I'll draw a parallel to the current state of Battlecruisers, everyone's probably noticed the lack of cruisers (that aren't heavy) in comparison to battlecruisers, with a ship being just as fast as you, far stronger than you, and capable of killing battleships, allbeit over a long period of time. that also has flaks to screw a class of ship specifically designed to counter it, why fly cruisers?
It's the similar situation, you have to get multiple bombers in the sky to make even a minute difference, and being entirely unable to defend itself against smaller craft, and most bombers being utter crap compared to their heavy bomber brethren there isn't much reason to fly them when you could just instead use a capital which because of the bomber's current state is far better.
Bombers need a change badly, and the rework is coming soon, everyone just chillax.
(08-07-2020, 03:18 PM)StyleR Wrote: Oh im sorry? You hate people because they have different opinions? You have discredited yourself and may be excused from a discussion. You might want to google what that means also.
Since when was I supposed to care about anyones opinions, particularly yours? If that's the only thing you can single out in my post then you may want to reconsider speaking again. See yourself out or apply some critical thinking instead of jumping to the emotional response because your feelings were hurt, especially when you were not the one being spoken to.
(08-07-2020, 02:54 PM)Ivan Norovich Wrote: In a fight between players of equal aiming and piloting skills between a VHF and a bomber, the VHF would always win, the only thing that could save the bomber was the SNAC and that ONLY if the bomber pilot was a master at aiming that thing.
It was never hard to 'master' the SNAC. It had plenty of speed, no scatter deviations, and was simply a case of knowing where to aim ahead of their ships. Deshield, point and click away the seal you're clubbing.
Quote:You know the Bomber Energy Cannons? All VHF can mount 4 or even 5 guns that do similar damage, with a faster projectile speed
Let me counter your sensationalist hyperbole with facts.
Here's the highest DPS, readily available guns for fighters.
Class 9's/Codenames
It seems 3000 DPS is where they cap off with a variety of speeds.
Bomber chaingun. 4266 DPS per gun. 750m/s, same speed as the fastest common fighter guns. Granted, it's terrible at deshielding, but you can land a nuke mine or screamer if you're of equal skill to your enemy yes? Maybe bring an EMP or two.
Bomber energy cannon 3752 dps per gun. Well, seeing as it's a known fact bombers are going to have 6 guns forwards come the rework, this means you heavily out DPS fighters, yes?
Bomber scatterguns. 5700 dps per gun. Specialty anti-fighter gun for dealing with fighters trying to early-turn you. Smash reverse in their face and blast them as they pass or try to turn on you. You'd be amazed what you can do with practice.
Quote:Fighters also have a bigger variety of guns
Well, you got me there, but I suppose you have to be right about something.
And you're also right about me being extremely hateful. You'll get over it.
Remove SNAC entirely and sell Asuras where SNACs are sold now.
Make bombers a bit more agile and increase their gun range and damage.
Increase fighter gun ranges to 800 too so they are a bit more useful against caps. Also give them a second CD slot and a weaker version of the nova torpedo.
Give bombers and fighters a choice of long range, slow, high damage guns, and shorter range, fast, higher efficiency guns. Make energy efficiency low and damage high enough to make mounting both types and switching groups depending on the target a thing (kind of like cap guns are split now).
Buff transport hulls, and don't make gear like armor, shields, and guns take up cargo space. Use the other methods at your disposal to control what armor can be mounted on what ship class. Or at the very least, write how much cargo space they take up in the infocard of everything that takes up cargo space.
Nerf cap gun damage enough to make complaints about "cap spam" and "cap piracy" a thing of the past.
(08-07-2020, 04:37 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Remove SNAC entirely and sell Asuras where SNACs are sold now.
At the current state of the SNAC, might as-well.
(08-07-2020, 04:37 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Make bombers a bit more agile and increase their gun range and damage.
I have no opinion on the agility, yes, do increase their range cause it makes no sense for a ship specially designed to take out caps to get within flak range of one just to have a chance at landing shots. Alternatively, leave bombers as they are but give the bomber torpedoes better speed and tracking since bomber haters are so adamant that bombers should be anti-cap only, if bombers are not meant to pull their own weight against a fighter, it's only logical for them to excel at killing caps and transports.
(08-07-2020, 04:37 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Increase fighter gun ranges to 800 too so they are a bit more useful against caps. Also give them a second CD slot and a weaker version of the nova torpedo.
Agreed
(08-07-2020, 04:37 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Give bombers and fighters a choice of long range, slow, high damage guns, and shorter range, fast, higher efficiency guns. Make energy efficiency low and damage high enough to make mounting both types and switching groups depending on the target a thing (kind of like cap guns are split now).
Sounds good in theory, in practice we got scatterguns at 150 range, if I have to get that close to a fighter to hit it, I might as-well go all in with the torpedoes, and that kills the purpose of the SNAC nerf in the first place.
(08-07-2020, 04:37 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Buff transport hulls, and don't make gear like armor, shields, and guns take up cargo space. Use the other methods at your disposal to control what armor can be mounted on what ship class. Or at the very least, write how much cargo space they take up in the infocard of everything that takes up cargo space.
Gear didn't use to take up cargo space, this was implemented to compensate for the hull buff and weapon variety that the transports already received, as if someone flying a battle transport is worried about the dent that gear makes in their cargo space. But yes, buff transports even more, that way I can ditch bombers altogether for a Ptrans and take on capital ships.
(08-07-2020, 04:37 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Nerf cap gun damage enough to make complaints about "cap spam" and "cap piracy" a thing of the past.
Don't. Between transport buffs and bomber nerfs, the powertraders have been pampered too much already. Most traders don't even bother stopping when asked to anymore, they are already not scared anymore of a stumped Roc when they can just shoot it out of the sky or just soak up damage until they make it to the nearest base.
If you don't want traders to laugh at you or be any good vs a cap in a fight, you are pretty much forced to fly Warans or other Waran alternatives that can carry an ASURAS+Nova torp+CD combo, rendering all the other bombers subpar.
If as a bomber pilot I am limited to fighting only caps or transports because "bumbers r not supuzed to fight fughters" then what's the point of having "light bombers" and "agile bombers" in the game anyway when the heavy bombers fulfill the same role with a lot more damage potential?
Heavy bombers: big game hunters, but easy pickings for snubcraft.
Light bombers: less effective against big targets, but can stand their own against snubs.
(08-07-2020, 11:59 AM)Nepotu Wrote: Imagine crying over SNAC not instakilling snubs, pathethic . Get a life, move on
Instantly killing another ships hull is unfun for the one who gets instantly removed from the fight after simply being deshielded and therefore isn't exactly healthy for the snub playerbase as more players would want to fly bombers for easy kills. You can argue it's hard to land those shots but you'll likely have multiple attempts to do so.
There Nep I added something to your otherwise weightless unnecessary insult. I have to add just because I raised that (actually really outdated) opinion doesn't mean I believe or stand by it, It's just an example of how not to be toxic over an idea.
Page 3 is full of somewhat decent arguments being made if you ignore the insults between the posts. Good job community.
Now I feel dirty because me even posting this reply is toxic of me.
(08-07-2020, 07:46 PM)Hubjump Wrote: There Nep I added something to your otherwise weightless unnecessary insult.
My comment was more sarcastic. I was the one yelling the most when the nerf happened. No one cared. All I got in response was "git gud", "move over it". At this point in time after two years (I guess) it's pretty pointless to talk about SNAC. The deed is done. Nothing will change that. The bomber rework will solve everything and everyone will be happy
(08-07-2020, 10:20 PM)Nepotu Wrote: All I got in response was "git gud", "move over it". At this point in time after two years (I guess) it's pretty pointless to talk about SNAC
This is too real. I hope some day you get your spark for discussion back
(08-07-2020, 10:20 PM)Nepotu Wrote: All I got in response was "git gud", "move over it". At this point in time after two years (I guess) it's pretty pointless to talk about SNAC
This is too real. I hope some day you get your spark for discussion back
Why would I even bother? No one gave a shit about my opinion, Rax's, Antonio's and others back then when it was still fresh, no one will give a shit now. Insta kill and high risk, high reward mechanics are not promoted here. Whoever tries to change things back to the way they used to be is an idiot and is wasting time for nothing.