(08-28-2020, 09:55 AM)Lumik8 Wrote: Honest question - what harm is done by the no-dock rephack actually? I mean, AIs and especially GAIs are not supposed to be traders anyway as far as I understood, and what I see here and there people mostly claim they play them for roleplay interactions in-game or on forums. How is that affected by the limited docking ability?
In the case of the Daoine Saorise that feckless decision to arbitrarily, without consultation, or intelligent reasoning to urinate all over the AI rephack, kills the whole factions ability to function, to even exist. It's RP is devastatingly impacted by it... and we are dead in the water. We don't play as Tardis "we will exterminate you" buffoonery.
We cannot even look after our own PoB's, to get commodities. And please... that lamest of excuses - get other factions to bring you supplies is obtuse.
Lets get some facts around the GAI RP - most think Robots, Cyborgs, Androids, and other regurgitated intellectually shallow RP. Which is now all you can really do with a castrated rephack set at a bogus -0.55. Ours faction RP is, as it clearly states in the ID and lore, self aware evolving sentient being, each one having the freedom to act independently. It is solidly based on the lore.
How human are the AI Daoine Saorise?
Our drones are sentient beings "evidently a synergy of HUMAN design and their ancient alien origin",
"Independent sentient beings of HUMAN and ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY" blended together. (don't think cogs, pistons and pullies) .
"(AI) ... civilization consists of a vast number of autonomous units, NOT TOO DIFFERENT FROM HUMAN SOCIETY"
It is racist HUMANS that "brand the new species a hostile alien race and abhorrent to their human-centric ideology".
So, there is EVERY REASON to believe a species of human/machine has evolved, and are reaching out to find their place among humans.
Your comment "They are not supposed to be traders anyway" is fair, but they have the use of ships to 3600 size and the Border World Transport is sold on Secundus Outpost. So trading is not excluded. They are clearly able trade moderately. The logic could also be applied to say AI aren't supposed to be a waring factions as they only have one HF and one destroyer. A scimitar and a switchblade too... whoop-de-doo.
For years the AI, who HAVE NO ENEMIES and HAVE NO ALLIES have had the -0.30 rephack. It has NEVER been a problem before and only because "someone didn't like it" was it changed. It was fixed and now it is broken.
Game Masters, please... reverse this feckless decision based probably on human centric ideology... it is as I said a complete and utter cock-up.
No offence, but you used many words to describe your opinion about the rephack change and your general view on what GAI is, but very little words regarding what actual practical ingame problems it causes. I mean sure, it is a bit annoying to must jump over few systems when you need to dock (though if you want just leave, you can simply just disconnect in space when no one is around), but what exactly is the devastating impact you speak of, considering you can still fly all around, meet players, interact with them both ingame and on forums? Because only two things come to my mind as possibly way too much limited by this - trading and POB stuff, what is the only issue you mentioned.
Basically, you can still dock in every sector, out of curiosity I made a list:
Bretonia: Leeds
Gallia: Provence
Indep. Worlds: Coronado
Kusari: Shikoku (+Kepler)
Liberty: Alberta, California, Pennsylvania (+Kepler)
Omegas: Omega-3, Omega-41, Omega-47, Omega-49
Omicrons: Omicron Delta, Omicron Kappa, Omicron Lost, Omicron Theta
Taus: Baffin, Tau-29, Tau-37
Rheinland: Cologne
Sigmas: Sigma-13, Sigma-15
And apart from that, you can still try RP out access to more bases, some people already mentioned here and there that their factions probably would not mind to give you access.
Now regarding the POB issue - it sounds like a fair point. However, I wonder where you POB is. According to the FLStat, most Zoner and Freelancer bases sell POB supplies, so you should be able to get them. But I may have overlooked something. Where were you buying them until now?
By the way, there is little point in complaining that the decision does not make sense inRP. It does. Humans for all their history were (and actually still are) afraid of things they did/do not understand, especially if they were/are unpredictable. And that´s exactly what "independent autonomous self-evolving sentient beings of human and ancient technology blended together coming from some a distant planet in deep space" are. And because we do not have lore about how the first contact with current inhabitants of Sirius and especially each faction happened, it quite safe to assume that GAI would be considered as dangerous until proven otherwise by most organizations.
If that´s the case, then supplies should be available on Freeport 6 in Tau-29, it should be selling Reinforced Alloy, Kyushu Rice, Oxygen and Water. Oxygen should be also available directly in Leeds on Halifax Freeport.
(08-28-2020, 11:39 PM)Lumik8 Wrote: If that´s the case, then supplies should be available on Freeport 6 in Tau-29, it should be selling Reinforced Alloy, Kyushu Rice, Oxygen and Water. Oxygen should be also available directly in Leeds on Halifax Freeport.
And... Hull segments? Optronic Arrays? etc? You will now tell me I have to RP to get these. Get real. That is forced RP.
Sounds like a whole lot of excuses are being made behind the scenes to stamp out negative commentary about a cocked-up decision. The decision I might that had no discussion nor input with players, particularly those most affected. No integrity - no dignity,
I have questions which you may not be able to answer.
Why was it changed?
What negative effect has it had over the many years before it was changed?
(08-28-2020, 11:54 PM)Eleyonn Wrote: And... Hull segments? Optronic Arrays? etc? You will now tell me I have to RP to get these. Get real. That is forced RP.
I thought the talk was about obtaining basic supplies to keep the base alive and repairing. If we´re talking about all commodities required for POBs, that´s a different story of course. However, you would not be only faction having difficulty to obtain them, for example many unlawfuls are in a similar position. And complaining that you are forced to RP on an RP server to get stuff sounds little weird. Nevertheless, I said that the restricted availability of the POB stuff is a fair point.
(08-28-2020, 11:54 PM)Eleyonn Wrote: Sounds like a whole lot of excuses are being made behind the scenes to stamp out negative commentary about a cocked-up decision. The decision I might that had no discussion nor input with players, particularly those most affected. No integrity - no dignity,
I am not sure how this is related to me. I just try to be constructive and wanted to hear the other side´s opinion, also point out that there are some possible ways, albeit difficult. Also, Disco is not a parliament, a lot of decisions is not discussed with players (thus sometimes are later changed or reversed). Especially when there is not even the official faction to represent those who are concerned. Not saying it is right or not, just saying how it is and that you are not the first one who appears in a similar situation. On top of that AI is little specific, because as far as I know, for many years it concerns a very small minority of the playerbase.
(08-28-2020, 11:54 PM)Eleyonn Wrote: I have questions which you may not be able to answer.
Why was it changed?
I am not part of the staff, so obviously I don´t know the exact reasoning behind it and how it happened. I just heard it was simply brought to their attention and they considered it as a long time overlooked issue which should be fixed, but I don´t have the proper information.
(08-28-2020, 11:54 PM)Eleyonn Wrote: What negative effect has it had over the many years before it was changed?
I don´t recall any major problem apart, only some docking in places where AI really should not. Though I had breaks from Disco and also I did not play all the time everywhere, so I cannot know if there were any major issues.
I should probably add that personally I don´t claim the change was -necessary-, but at the same time I can understand mainly inRP reasons. However I can imagine better solution of course, for example staff approaching at least official faction leaders with question "hey, we noticed GAI can dock everywhere and we think it is not right. Do you want to keep them docking rights on bases of your faction?" And then, because for example in Liberty GAIs are outlawed, it would make sense that lawfuls and corporations would restrict docking on their bases. Also, there is the issue of unlawfuls, like mentioned elsewhere, I can hardly imagine some of them would not shoot GAI´s on sight, let alone let them dock on their bases. Xenos would be the best example of that.
I do value your feedback and am reflecting on your thoughts and comments. And I am not trying to be obtuse or derogatory to you in anyway. You are constructive and are affording a very frustrated and annoyed individual a sounding board. That is appreciated.
The comment about "a whole lot of excuses" was more a reflection and was indeed unrelated to you. Sorry if that came across as such.
Your last comment regarding "What negative effects..." is helpful. I don't think any faction should have a free ride. It is an RP server after all. Perhaps it is more the sense of injustice and unfairness about the way things were handled and I totally agree there are other ways to have dealt with the rep levels for AI.
What I also find... well... pathetic is obviously the lack of consultation, and perhaps why they don't reverse it to the way it was for the interim and then have the conversation about it. All it does is alienate rather than collaborate on a solution.
For the record, even though I was able to dock, my faction has pretty much RP'd its way into Bretonia. AI are very small and not much value to the game confined to Kappa. Players have been gracious enough to RP our presence (Enclave, Bretonia Govt, DSE in particular).
Perhaps another issue is the latest rephack has reverted some of my AI ship reps in a negative way. It also badly impacts on the vision I had for AI Daoine Saorise.
Have you submitted player request with arguments why some rephacks should be reversed or will you keep posting here without actually putting in the work to solve the issue? If your vision is ruined, then you obviously can't deal with challenges arising from playing aliens in space occupied by humans. You can always try to go for official status which will give you separate ID with custom rephacks if they make sense.