A side issue to this is the fact that unlawfuls are being uplifted to be fighting on equal footing to the Navy, leaving the police even more in a gimped fashion compared to the "mainstay" Navy. Same like what happened to the bounty hunters.
Merge the IDs into ''X Lawfuls'' and be done with it.
EDIT: Yeah, okay, elaborate.
If you merge these IDs and give them a highly generic name, it will allow people to create writeups that are not bound to the concept of ''navy'' or ''police'' or whatever. Let them make a detective wing if they want, let them make a MP squad. Internal affairs, etc.
Same with pirates. Merge all IDs into X Unlawfuls and let them make their own writeups that would make them distinct.
We have plenty of ''NumberTh'' wings and whatever trying to make a ''navy group'' interesting. But if you make it into something more generic and all-encompasing, suddenly you can be literally anything related to that role. Heck, you can be a border guard if you want to.
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(11-27-2020, 02:53 PM)sindroms Wrote: Merge the IDs into ''X Lawfuls'' and be done with it.
EDIT: Yeah, okay, elaborate.
If you merge these IDs and give them a highly generic name, it will allow people to create writeups that are not bound to the concept of ''navy'' or ''police'' or whatever. Let them make a detective wing if they want, let them make a MP squad. Internal affairs, etc.
Same with pirates. Merge all IDs into X Unlawfuls and let them make their own writeups that would make them distinct.
We have plenty of ''NumberTh'' wings and whatever trying to make a ''navy group'' interesting. But if you make it into something more generic and all-encompasing, suddenly you can be literally anything related to that role. Heck, you can be a border guard if you want to.
I get what you are saying but in Lib for example we have literally two, the 5th and the 46th which is unnoficial, not to mention LN which - and I don't mean to be rude - barely logs.
Also, I heard from Khalmera once on the Official Discord Voice Chat "We have the ability to see people who's on which trade lane and Jump Gate, so we already know when people are coming in when we log, that's why you don't see us online so much." He's 1iC of LPI, right?
To me the ability do forbid docking and see traffic on lanes is good enough if smuggling gets more interesting. I once setup a whole operation as 46th, encompassing 2 RP posts, a whole battle plan and 5 players to catch a smuggler flying daily trough Alaska... the next day he stopped coming into Liberty.
Maybe it's more about making other unlawful opportunities a chance against the typical "Be a pirate, kill errrrthang" most unlawfuls are incentivized to. Me and Argo actually had an RP with @"Kage Tenshi" once on his LH that was an extremely enjoyable "Mexican Standoff", all while an OC was crying for him to just shoot us.
I mean, Rogues in the original game were these little pests, but in Disco they behave like a fulll military in constat war with Liberty, flying Scyllas and all that. If Police are not brought to that level...
Some countries IRL (Italy for instance) have two police forces: a civil police responsible for investigating crime and a military one responsible for preventing it. Maybe give Police in Disco some gameplay ability to run investigations...?
TL;DR: More incentives to better RP police or more smuggling opportunities will make Pol look less like a lesser navy whitout taking too much of the navy RP itself
(11-27-2020, 11:52 AM)Binski Wrote: Well now unless a House is at war it makes sense to think about placing inrp laws against navy ships being used for patrolling inside of a house. Perhaps they should be limited to border systems and deployments outside of a house. That leaves police as the main choice for operating inside of house space. And, if left inrp then technically the house gov would need to request navy assistance, and could grant permissions for sieges of illegals bases inside house space, if necessary. That would leave navies mostly clinging to the edges of their houses.
The key here is also in having things to do. Smuggling is dead, building secret bases is dead.
Add an atmospheric dock point that accepts transports to every dockable planet as a quasi/unlawful landing option for every planet and more would try smuggling again. Also, make smuggling far more profitable than lawful trading. There should be a big temptation to smuggle for easy money, which of course comes with more risk.
Adding some kind of a battle pob or player buildable weapons platform that could be used by unlawfuls to claim territory, or used by players on any side of a war, would also give players in any situation more to do. Whether it be in navy or police jurisdiction, having more disposable enemy bases/objects to remove by force would create some new activity.
+1 Smuggling needs revival. Doing so would give more emphasis on stopping them.
If nobody is playing Police with its separate ID, what makes you think that somebody is going to play it when there will be basically no reasons to except of fancy faction theme?
I actually love the suggestion about smuggling's overhaul. So far it's really, really underrated and nobody is doing it for OORP reasons. Some people do but mostly because they want to roleplay and play unlawful traders albeit let's be honest: it's not really profitable comparing to lawful trading (the prices are the same (relatively) but the amount of time you waste on getting from point A to point B is disappointing), it's dangerous and you are still a subject to getting pirated.
(11-26-2020, 05:48 PM)Groshyr Wrote: As you know, I would rather, instead, merge Police and Navy into one law enforcement faction with access to TLAGS and up to battlecruiser for indies, and that police thing with permissions to forbid dock to lawful bases within their house and access to battleships for official factions. May be rough, but as well will limit number of r*tards in battleships rolling into battle and fire all guns.
I actually like this idea quite a bit, it merges an idea me and a friend of mine had where you'd only have official "police" and "navy" while you'd have a sort of House Militia ID which is quasi lawful which is some what similar to Hogosha. Except they can pirate ships not belonging to X house with in the house, while also enforcing the Law, catch is that Police/Navy/Intel might not recognize them as legitimate law enforcers and if caught could be treated as pirates or terrorists essentially.
I will admit, that is also a bit more radical then your suggestion.
Isn't it basically Privateer ID before it was nerfed? You can pirate anyone in Bretonia, so you could basically uphold laws, or just pirating for your own benefit.
Well I guess this gives me a good reason to type on the Forums.
I dont agree with Merging Police and Navy and I never will. I think its fine the way it is if im being honest. Navy goes to war and needs that extended zoi and such. But in peace times they need "something" to do so I dont mind them issuing fines. Merging the two is not good as it takes away LPI's Corporate Identity.
Edit: it takes a certain type of player to want to be a Policeman. it does not have the Navy Playstyle of going to war. Navy also has access to the big boy capitals that Police have to SRP. Leave it as is. Dont make it worse.
Just as the constant increase of entropy is the basic law of the universe, so it is the basic law of life to struggle against entropy. - V. Havel
(11-27-2020, 03:40 PM)romeodarkbeat Wrote: I mean, Rogues in the original game were these little pests, but in Disco they behave like a fulll military in constat war with Liberty, flying Scyllas and all that. If Police are not brought to that level...
So you clearly have no idea what Rogues actually are, since they are in no way even remotely militaristic. Never have or had been, never can or will be.
Police don't need to be brought to the same level, as they're already far more organized than the largest criminal group they face in Liberty, have weaponry that isn't jerry-rigged, have ships that aren't gonna fall apart on the pilot, have the lane network to pinpoint pirates and smugglers. Something the Rogues are forced to rely on the Lane Hackers for, since they don't have that. The Police rely on no one to do their job.
Rogue pilots in comparison to Police pilots have no training, typically dumb as rocks and the Rogues main tactic is overwhelming their enemy with numbers alone, which is why they're just pests, the moment a skilled force matches them in number, they crumble. Thus why they're simply vassals of the Outcasts, as they could never truly stand on their own when it came time to bite a bullet. At least not if they wished to keep their current size as the main motivating factor between them is their allegiance to the Outcasts and their wish to take over Liberty. The most basic ideology of pack mentality, us versus them.
Along the lines of behaving like a full military, you have a very broken view of the game. Having cruisers does not equate to militaristic behavior, all it takes is a semi-competent captain, loading up a bunch of borderline mentally impaired gun crazies into turret control, and launching, then floating into space with whatever other pack mentality crazies decided to follow the big ship. Following that logic, that would make literally every faction, military or otherwise that has a cruiser, a military. Which just isn't the case.
Along more of the topic at hand, police and military, are entirely different. Military Police are also different from both respectively, as they draw aspects from each without being one. Both can do the other's job in a different capacity, both serve their house walking a different path and taking orders from different styled superiors. One deals with a ton of legal bull on the civilian level, the other is typically stricter with their schedules and days, and are held to a much higher standard, and patrol more crucial and higher tier security locations that police wouldn't have access to.
(11-28-2020, 01:57 AM)Hemlocke Wrote: So you clearly have no idea what Rogues actually are, since they are in no way even remotely militaristic. Never have or had been, never can or will be.
I understand your point, I really do, but I'm not saying they ARE military, but that they behave like full blown terrorists instead of the "focus on smuggling and piracy" their ID is about.
Not having caps doens't stop them to go full "warrior-mode", it seems. No pirate behaviour, just hunting for blues constantly, to the point I was told when being accepted as a recruit --- "That [R] at the end of your name is a target on your back."
Almost 3 months later, 80% of my encounters with rogues barely had a pirate interaction. There are two dudes in particular that I don't even have to name because just saying I'm talking about THOSE two rogues makes all of Liberty and their mothers know who *those* two rogues are, and that's because they just /1/2 and half a sec later torp anything that moves and is IFF red.
Most LH, namely Kage but others too, have provided much more indepth roleplay, and even outcast hungry for blues have shown me the capacity for great RP before a pew. But if smuggling is dead and some unlawfuls log hunting for blues.. It would take a special kind of commitment to RP police.
Again, not lumping ALL rogues in the same argument, just some bad apples that seem to also be the top loggin apples.
And don't listen to me, let's hear the 1iC of LPI himself:
"Edit: it takes a certain type of player to want to be a Policeman. it does not have the Navy Playstyle of going to war. Navy also has access to the big boy capitals that Police have to SRP. Leave it as is. Dont make it worse."
And let's not even start talking about the time 7 DSS caps came in and started shooting snubs in the middle of New York, or when suddenly 6 caps called "the 64th Fleet" logged hunting for Argo and Burlington.
TL;DR Liberty is at war. My view of it might be wrong, bu not in any way more "broken" than clinging to ID lines that are ignored 88% of the time
Just fix the economy, please. It has lo-o-ong been totally dead, eh. Trading now is nothing but waste of time – absolutely unprofitable compared with PVE and even some missions. Situation is a little better with mining, but again, cannot be compared with PVE. Therefore: no traders means no pirates, means no police. Just because what should they do in their limited ZOI? Nothing, right. Nowadays, you can regularly play for police only in Liberty, because Rogues activity in there. A-and even in Liberty this can be done with... Ahem... Varying degrees of success, mhm. All "roads" of this problem leads to dead economy. In my humble opinion, of course, yah. But anyway, should you still take a chance and try to bring the economy into a proper shape and see if I was right or not? By the way, such changes may well be useful for the game at all. Think about it.
P.S.: And stop trying to merge all thing in one, for god's sake. Stop it, please. Do not try to turn Discovery into Crossfire. That kind of experience will definitely be unhealthy for DFL. Just look at CF daily online, at least, gosh. Didn't expect this from you, Spazzy.