Quote:I just logged for first time since May. Between 5-10 people online the whole time!
The server is rigged into a do nothing mode, not a 'come join in on anything 24/7' mode. They need to apply a cyclical activity system, and to hinge in game achievments with RP progress. We need driving forces!
That is why I suggested letting factions earn the ability to lay siege to a base or location to capture it. Its like, if we let a faction siege a base for an event, what determines who, and why, and how often it should happen? Well a system could be used. Because when we just have periodic events it doesnt create a constant live activity the rest of the time. If we used that system, many places would be open to attack over time, and means action could pop up almost anywhere on the server, at regular intervals, but be set by player activity/consumption. Its not knowing where and when that would make a constant need to build and be prepared that would get people flying again. This place would be better off with factions constantly making little sieges against each other than being dead.
Half the point is the action of the siege, and faction advancement, but the other half of the point is to create some contant opportunity in the form of trade and supply. That system will literally save this place in days. We have many players with even more unused ships/assets that would love to have something to do, and participate in something that gives the game world a feeling like its alive again, its that feeling that brings people back to logging in to find a battle, or trade to supply funds to buy ships or stuff for your chosen side.
We could have a system of regular actions being taken by factions that all cause trade and generate a variety of other jobs, leading to the ability to have on the spot experiences again. Even if it takes 6 months, find the people to get that kind of a routine going on and it would be well worth it. Is there still an events team? Each siege would be the event, so maybe they can help work on temporary changes needed for each event. But even just allowing factions to be able to work to earn an event, and whats needed to win, and to be able to make that kind of gamble, would breathe another 10 years into this place!
This is the third time I have had my posts deleted, and second time I was privately warned by Mephistoles to not go 'off topic'. I welcome anyone explaining how this post, or any others, is actually off topic. Why is talking about freelancer not on topic, as well as how a system ties into solving a variety of problems, most certainly trade, piracy and pvp. Am I really being shut up in an obvious effort to just shut me up out of spite? I can't believe there are those here that are still so offended by the concept they'll just delete any reference I make to it. Is it really that necessary? To me it only reaffirms that no one can really argue against my point.
Very well, I'll just post my replies here in my own thread for replies, so I can avoid cluttering up threads with 'off topic posts'.
(And in regards to my Challenge System idea, the day someone can find a real reason not to go with that or something like it, I'll have nothing more to say. But I'm pretty sure that's impossible, the logic is quite clear. Yet months and years go on, so much time to turn things around here, and no action at all in regards to fixing the population decline. I continue under the premise that there is nothing wrong with even this old game, its how its run that is the problem, and that unless more is done with it, it all amounts to wasted time in the end for everyone involved.)
EDIT: Also, this was supposed to be in the Discovery Mod GD forum, not coms channel.
After reading your 30th or so Post of you pushing your idea, I have decided to respond to one of them.
Why don't you set up your own Server (many have done it before), implement your Combat System and advertise your Server.
You can become Admin of it and set out whatever Rules you want.
All those people who want to shoot POBs 24/7 or supply POBs 24/7 will naturally migrate to your Server.
When your Server has a regular 200+ people on it (I can even suggest 100+), you can then turn round to the main people of this Server (Lead Devs) and say "I told you so".
This way you can 'put your money where your mouth is' and prove all the naysayers wrong.
With all your followers, setting up and paying for a Server shouldn't be a problem.
So, the ball is in your court and now it is time to prove everyone wrong.
'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are' Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person
(09-10-2021, 06:49 PM)Binski Wrote: That system will literally save this place in days.
If you truly believe that, you are seriously delusional.
(09-10-2021, 06:49 PM)Binski Wrote: We have many players with even more unused ships/assets that would love to have something to do, and participate in something that gives the game world a feeling like its alive again, its that feeling that brings people back to logging in to find a battle, or trade to supply funds to buy ships or stuff for your chosen side.
If someone... anyone... really enjoyed what you describe, all they have to do is build a pob where it's bound to get sieged. Fact is, people like building stuff, but they absolutely hate having to defend it. If they now have to constantly defend literally everything in the game unless they want to see their focal points destroyed by the bunch of trolls and bullies that everyone knows we have, they are definitely not going to love it.
Everyone I know who loves the game but doesn't really play it (and that includes myself) is not short of "things to do". We have lots of ideas, projects, ambitions, and willingness to invest work.
The Nr 1 reason why we don't log and/or work on it (or continue the considerable work we already invested) is that we know with 100% certainty that it's going to be blocked (or is already blocked for years) / stomped by some little twat in some position of pixelpower like OF, government, staff, or "comfortable with the the latter" for no other reason than we'd be stepping on "their turf". Be it creating open-for all multi-purpose immersive POBs, noob-friendly factions, simply going on space adventures with random people you meet (omg you cant go there with that faction even though your ID permits it! you have to join X faction for that!), creating an actual strategy for improving system/JH layout, making the rules halfway comprehensible for new people, putting rules and lore and explanations of game mechanics ingame. Everything is "someone's turf" and if you're doing something that challenges their authority/dominance on it, they make sure you won't get anywhere with it.
(09-10-2021, 06:49 PM)Binski Wrote: And in regards to my Challenge System idea, the day someone can find a real reason not to go with that or something like it, I'll have nothing more to say.
Many people have given you the reason many times:
Sieges suck. Especially for the defender. Losing their stuff in sieges is one of the main reasons why people leave this game. People don't want to have to defend their favorite things in the game 24/7 and organize their professional and private lives around being able to log to defend it.
Why staff isn't able to tell you that simple reason, and can't come up with anything better than "make your own server/mod and if players don't migrate from our busy server to your new empty server that proves your idea is wrong", which is a cop-out that can be applied to literally everything, you'll have to ask them.
(09-10-2021, 06:49 PM)Binski Wrote: Yet months and years go on, so much time to turn things around here, and no action at all in regards to fixing the population decline.
That is indeed frustrating. But seriously, you're not helping by continuing to push this 1 thing almost nobody agrees with. There are 20 other things that could make the game better for everyone with 0 negative contra points for anybody (for example an actually fun noob progression that teaches lore, rules, and game mechanics, better guidelines for OF and government behavior, better armor upgrade + gear progression. I know staff tried with the last armor upgrade revamp. But make an UA with 0 cargo that costs literally nothing? just... wtf... do you evne think before you do stuff?), which aren't being done either.
(09-10-2021, 07:10 PM)St.Denis Wrote: After reading your 30th or so Post of you pushing your idea, I have decided to respond to one of them.
Why don't you set up your own Server (many have done it before), implement your Combat System and advertise your Server.
You can become Admin of it and set out whatever Rules you want.
All those people who want to shoot POBs 24/7 or supply POBs 24/7 will naturally migrate to your Server.
When your Server has a regular 200+ people on it (I can even suggest 100+), you can then turn round to the main people of this Server (Lead Devs) and say "I told you so".
This way you can 'put your money where your mouth is' and prove all the naysayers wrong.
With all your followers, setting up and paying for a Server shouldn't be a problem.
So, the ball is in your court and now it is time to prove everyone wrong.
Eh, why splinter server though. Binsky can literally build 2 PoBs of opposite affiliation near each other and fill them, agree with 2 leaders to fight over them at a set time and that the "survivor" OF will get it filled by Binsky and given it for free and a grace period.
The other faction can then siege it after X time to get it back after Y damage is done, I'm sure you admins would accomodate Binsky with swapping IFFs for this test run?
EDIT: Issue is where would be 2 sides willing to siege that are about equal and it's not pre-determined who wins. Also the sides would need to talk to each other and pre-agree on the conditions.
Also a little history Rheinland
- Runied by PoBs. Tsingtao siege, behavior of attackers, defenders and shenanigans around it and the subsequent petty retaliation hostile mass set of PoBs is something Rheinland hasn't recovered from to this day as many people quit or abandoned the house for good.
Bretonia
Spiteful PoBs and sieges started a circle of hate and lack of fair play it will never recover from in my opinion. When it looked like we could turn it after Gallia lost Zoi more sieges happened and all was lost. Will of me and pretty much everyone else to make it a "normal" house broken.
Crayter
- To this day that was the dumbest decision I have seen in disco, a stupid "not serious" siege against people from own faction without talking to them first splintered Crayter, it hasn't recovered since.
Liberty
- Colorado siege harmed Liberty lawfuls for a long time after. Attackers don't realize it, but many people on the lawful side haven't logged properly since.
Omicrons
- Core was struggling for a long time, but when Corsairs, by an order of magnitude, shot more nomads right next to Nauru meme PoBs than Core OF did, the days of the OF were numbered. And that was by inaction, they didn't even do anything and it was enough to set them back a bunch.
It was a RP liner "PoB" whipped by admins. If it would survive it would Become a RP asset. It was meant to last whole weekend.You know what happened Gallic Lawfuls logged 13+ people during working hours on a weekday. Base lasted 2 hours and defenders never got within 30k near it.
Now there was very little griefing about the PoB itself since nobody built it, it was just meant to be a little fun stuff for the mighty ex-enclave to do like the good old days. And you can do this with the dual PoB thing. But nevertheless, it was a pointless stomp.
Contested Sieges always bring a short spike of activity, followed by burnout and net serious harm to the region in the long run. I know it, you know it Binsky, this is why we both know you will not put any effort into testing your theory with the tools available as you would fail miserably at finding 2 sides willing to siege each other . . .fairly with good sportsmanship without causing long term harm.
(09-10-2021, 07:10 PM)St.Denis Wrote: After reading your 30th or so Post of you pushing your idea, I have decided to respond to one of them.
Why don't you set up your own Server (many have done it before), implement your Combat System and advertise your Server.
You can become Admin of it and set out whatever Rules you want.
All those people who want to shoot POBs 24/7 or supply POBs 24/7 will naturally migrate to your Server.
When your Server has a regular 200+ people on it (I can even suggest 100+), you can then turn round to the main people of this Server (Lead Devs) and say "I told you so".
This way you can 'put your money where your mouth is' and prove all the naysayers wrong.
With all your followers, setting up and paying for a Server shouldn't be a problem.
So, the ball is in your court and now it is time to prove everyone wrong.
Probably the same reason you don't migrate to your own server and leave this one to me to try something else. I can still put my money where my mouth is here easily if you guys were willing to knuckle down on it, what real harm could come from trying? What are you all that afraid to lose, that we havn't already lost from the place being empty? So you can rub it in that I can't do any of that myself, but I can rub it in that those who can, also seem to lack creativity in what to do with a game like this. Its not about sieges, its about giving players collective use of force, that requires activity to fuel, that is fairly laid out and administered.
But its true I have a backup plan. One of these days I'm gonna get super rich, and I'll be buying the Freelancer franchise. When I do, I'll live the dream one way or another! I guess instead of writing RP stories here, I'll start submitting to Viacom or Disney, since Star Trek and Star Wars are in desperate need of writers that are experts in the core lore of both franchises, and that's me. Apparently I might have to save those worlds first, then return to save this one. Maybe I can convince one of them to buy Freelancer to breathe some life into the place.
(09-10-2021, 08:11 PM)Karlotta Wrote:
(09-10-2021, 06:49 PM)Binski Wrote: That system will literally save this place in days.
If you truly believe that, you are seriously delusional.
Nope I'm confident if we implemented this system, within a week we'd see a noticeable jump in average server population. You'd be surprised at what actually creating something to do online does for getting people online.
(09-10-2021, 08:11 PM)Karlotta Wrote: If someone... anyone... really enjoyed what you describe, all they have to do is build a pob where it's bound to get sieged. Fact is, people like building stuff, but they absolutely hate having to defend it. If they now have to constantly defend literally everything in the game unless they want to see their focal points destroyed by the bunch of trolls and bullies that everyone knows we have, they are definitely not going to love it.
Everyone I know who loves the game but doesn't really play it (and that includes myself) is not short of "things to do". We have lots of ideas, projects, ambitions, and willingness to invest work.
The Nr 1 reason why we don't log and/or work on it (or continue the considerable work we already invested) is that we know with 100% certainty that it's going to be blocked (or is already blocked for years) / stomped by some little twat in some position of pixelpower like OF, government, staff, or "comfortable with the the latter" for no other reason than we'd be stepping on "their turf". Be it creating open-for all multi-purpose immersive POBs, noob-friendly factions, simply going on space adventures with random people you meet (omg you cant go there with that faction even though your ID permits it! you have to join X faction for that!), creating an actual strategy for improving system/JH layout, making the rules halfway comprehensible for new people, putting rules and lore and explanations of game mechanics ingame. Everything is "someone's turf" and if you're doing something that challenges their authority/dominance on it, they make sure you won't get anywhere with it.
The system layout is fine, the routes and trade lane system is fine, we just need people. And like you said, since we know its all locked there is no point in really trying. Yes we need fixing of some silly things, and some minor things like changing the in-game chat list to no longer show system, and only region, so traders will be forced to trade and take their chances flying instead of waiting someone out.
So, again, its not about the sieges, they are an outlet that would compel people to grind with purpose, and remove the constant anchor that hangs over us, that we can't really do anything to effect the game world except via the forum. The name of the game should be that we come to effect the game world, and its ok to keep caring. They wanted us to care so much here when it was good for them, and then not when it was inconvenient.
The outlet will entice people to get back to grinding, to be prepared, for whatever may come. A siege may be a thing a faction saves up and waves over someone else's head. The threat of the ability to use force as a faction to get real change done would completely change the atmosphere here and removing that 'cap' is the actual #1 thing that would begin to fix this place's decline.
(09-10-2021, 08:11 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Many people have given you the reason many times:
Sieges suck. Especially for the defender. Losing their stuff in sieges is one of the main reasons why people leave this game. People don't want to have to defend their favorite things in the game 24/7 and organize their professional and private lives around being able to log to defend it.
Why staff isn't able to tell you that simple reason, and can't come up with anything better than "make your own server/mod and if players don't migrate from our busy server to your new empty server that proves your idea is wrong", which is a cop-out that can be applied to literally everything, you'll have to ask them.
Sieges don't suck! The most fun I ever had was defending POB's here. Some we lost, others we didn't. This is why I suggest shifting the major focus of sieges over to NPC bases. The main concept is the bases don't get destroyed, they get 'reduced' and that allows them to be taken over by the offenders. The system I made is quite fair, if a defending faction has the scidata saved, they can buy their own 'counter' siege.
You all think of sieges as only groups of caps gathering to attack and another forming to defend. But that's not the main point here. The system would allow you to place a base under 'seige' but you would have days to muster an attack, and mostly could send in 'parties' and let attacks happen in droves, in small groups going in to inflict damage before defenders arrive to drive them off and try to supply the base to make repairs. We have a perfect siege system set up here, and again I find myself saying that it hasn't been used to its full potential. All of that would generate countless hours in trade, supply, defense roles like mercenaries, 'scouts' or observers (spies heaven forbid), bounty hunters, etc.
The point is that the sieges can only be kept going if factions earn to keep them going. Or a battle comes, a faction makes an attempt to take a base, if it fails they can try again in the future. That creates a never ending [open ended] situation. No more cap on activity because its pointless. Let players build up, gather interested parties, form alliances, etc, all gearing up to try to expand their territory (with limitations on how far that can go, which is why I wrote it so only certain bases even qualify to be attacked).
The other point is that between these sieges, people have far more reason to go back to work keeping up on owning ships of various classes, upgrades, gathering scidata, which can include many other methods aside from mining (like mini rp events?). The increased opportunities means eventually, someone will start trying to capture a base here and there. The player base will then have the option, like any event, to get involved for or against. This is just playing freelancer people, you have all been doublethinked into seeing a normal functioning healthy server as unimaginable.
(09-10-2021, 08:11 PM)Karlotta Wrote: That is indeed frustrating. But seriously, you're not helping by continuing to push this 1 thing almost nobody agrees with. There are 20 other things that could make the game better for everyone with 0 negative contra points for anybody (for example an actually fun noob progression that teaches lore, rules, and game mechanics, better guidelines for OF and government behavior, better armor upgrade + gear progression. I know staff tried with the last armor upgrade revamp. But make an UA with 0 cargo that costs literally nothing? just... wtf... do you evne think before you do stuff?), which aren't being done either.
But so far I've seen no better suggestions, and nothing but fragmented suggestions on how to best proceed. Sort of like you with the rules changes, I set out to seriously tackle the problems that face disco, and its pretty obvious. I keep pushing because groupthink can sink ships and its only a few individuals that pressure everyone else with fear of ostracization to keep them in line. Make this system a reality, and we'll see plenty of those complaining be left with no choice but to get involved, or let it go and let others who will do stuff step up. I guarantee you, within weeks factions will actually see membership go up again, because they will become what they should be, a method to get things done. The system provides guaranteed avenues, as the maybes of 'apply and maybe you'll get this or that' is exactly why the place can't grow or evolve, it just doesn't make sense, and hasn't for years.
And yes, I have issues with some other things but I stay on this issue because I know it will fix some other problems all in one. The little things aren't so bad when there's lots of people online, and the only way to fix that is change our mode of operating, and see if that makes a difference. Seriously, everyone here should be as desperate as me to turn it around here, because otherwise we are just watching the place decline, and it will result in all of us having years wasted when the place just ceases to exist! Or becomes the most empty corner of the internet.
(09-10-2021, 09:56 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: Also a little history Rheinland
- Runied by PoBs. Tsingtao siege, behavior of attackers, defenders and shenanigans around it and the subsequent petty retaliation hostile mass set of PoBs is something Rheinland hasn't recovered from to this day as many people quit or abandoned the house for good.
Bretonia
Spiteful PoBs and sieges started a circle of hate and lack of fair play it will never recover from in my opinion. When it looked like we could turn it after Gallia lost Zoi more sieges happened and all was lost. Will of me and pretty much everyone else to make it a "normal" house broken.
Crayter
- To this day that was the dumbest decision I have seen in disco, a stupid "not serious" siege against people from own faction without talking to them first splintered Crayter, it hasn't recovered since.
Liberty
- Colorado siege harmed Liberty lawfuls for a long time after. Attackers don't realize it, but many people on the lawful side haven't logged properly since.
Omicrons
- Core was struggling for a long time, but when Corsairs, by an order of magnitude, shot more nomads right next to Nauru meme PoBs than Core OF did, the days of the OF were numbered. And that was by inaction, they didn't even do anything and it was enough to set them back a bunch.
It was a RP liner "PoB" whipped by admins. If it would survive it would Become a RP asset. It was meant to last whole weekend.You know what happened Gallic Lawfuls logged 13+ people during working hours on a weekday. Base lasted 2 hours and defenders never got within 30k near it.
Now there was very little griefing about the PoB itself since nobody built it, it was just meant to be a little fun stuff for the mighty ex-enclave to do like the good old days. And you can do this with the dual PoB thing. But nevertheless, it was a pointless stomp.
Contested Sieges always bring a short spike of activity, followed by burnout and net serious harm to the region in the long run. I know it, you know it Binsky, this is why we both know you will not put any effort into testing your theory with the tools available as you would fail miserably at finding 2 sides willing to siege each other . . .fairly with good sportsmanship without causing long term harm.
To also address your first post, no offense, but no one cares if you build a couple of POB's, over months, just to provoke one short, terrible battle. No one cares because nothing makes them, the way its set up is that not fighting is the best way to win and get what you want in Discovery Freelancer. And that's why its dead here.
I saw that liner event, but to me that was not really the same thing. Again, no one really cared, there was never any real risk. You guys want this place to be full again, do what you all avoided for 10 years, since its the solution to our problem, and coincidentally the one thing they avoid supporting.
Let NPC bases be at risk, let the real repercussions of a base changing factions play out. Yes the real repercussions will see every battle full on both sides. Some may be hesitant at first, but after the pier pressure finally dies, people will realize that we could go back to freelancer where we immersed ourselves in caring. So if an unlawful faction did ever lay sieges to a lawful base or planet, the only way to keep the place alive is if you let them care, let them choose a side, let them get involved in a real way. We all have skill to contribute to any situation, or resources, to be used for the best of our ability. The place actually tried to remove that aspect to reality you'd get here, which was the original point of Freelancer!
Yes you should be able to specialize as a bomber, or spy/scout, or merc/bounty hunter, etc, and have stuff to do in game, not just pretend. Turns out its not so impossible! Just need to use some of these years rolling by to stop and actually tackle the big problem. So if people could finally stop worrying about who might get credit for what, or for saving Disco, we could try a new thing that undoubtedly would open up the place with many new opportunities. That would get old players to come back more, to use what they already have in stuff and knowledge but to do new things with them finally.
As to the sieges, again, the point is not to only have constant fleet battles, but opening up a 'siege' on a base means it becomes in jeopardy. That gets people moving, and yes, its fun to defend real space from a real attack! In the end, you'd find that with each siege, players would divide up naturally, and have something to do for a week. Yes some places could fall fast, others not. A siege costs a lot so it may be a huge waste, its a real gamble! That's what we should be doing here, yes we can have that without player fighting ruining it. The best way for players to deal with their problems, is online! Remember, the sieges are only a bummer loss for as long as the defending faction has to work to earn their own siege, ships and players. Don't you see how it would work? It never ends, there is no 'our base is gone for a year or more now', it only ends when the players get tired of it. The changes would be as permanent as the player situation.
So no wonder the Liner situation didn't go well. Make each base like a Core 4, make them real NPC bases that it matters what happens to it, and it would be different. But yes we'd need to ease into things, but after a few months I think it would work just fine.
The rest is, the only way to see how it would play out is to test it! Yes there would be unforeseeable circumstances again, and that is also something that should be seen as beautiful! It would be like Freelancer 2 right here right now!
Again, you're just trying to brush over the central flaw with lots and lots of rhetoric repeating the same thing 50 times, without seriously addressing the reason your system will suck majorly: People don't enjoy being forced to log, being forced to grind, being forced to fight. No matter how often you say "believe me those who think they wont will enjoy it" this is not going to change. Your system isn't about freedom, it's about the opposite: its about coercing people to log and grind, or see the things they actually do enjoy destroyed. You will make things worse than they already are, not better. And even if forcing people to grind was a desirable thing, it still wont' have the desired effects because the grinding is to spread out in our current route/jh/mining system layout.
(09-11-2021, 04:15 AM)Binski Wrote: Probably the same reason you don't migrate to your own server and leave this one to me to try something else. I can still put my money where my mouth is here easily if you guys were willing to knuckle down on it, what real harm could come from trying? What are you all that afraid to lose, that we havn't already lost from the place being empty? So you can rub it in that I can't do any of that myself, but I can rub it in that those who can, also seem to lack creativity in what to do with a game like this. Its not about sieges, its about giving players collective use of force, that requires activity to fuel, that is fairly laid out and administered.
The reason I don't migrate to my own Server/another is that I don't have a problem with this one.
I am just like you and the majority of the Players here, I have no control over how the Game progresses.
Quote:But its true I have a backup plan. One of these days I'm gonna get super rich, and I'll be buying the Freelancer franchise. When I do, I'll live the dream one way or another! I guess instead of writing RP stories here, I'll start submitting to Viacom or Disney, since Star Trek and Star Wars are in desperate need of writers that are experts in the core lore of both franchises, and that's me. Apparently I might have to save those worlds first, then return to save this one. Maybe I can convince one of them to buy Freelancer to breathe some life into the place.
I wish you well in your endeavour.
'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are' Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person
(09-11-2021, 04:15 AM)Binski Wrote: To also address your first post, no offense, but no one cares if you build a couple of POB's, over months, just to provoke one short, terrible battle. No one cares because nothing makes them, the way its set up is that not fighting is the best way to win and get what you want in Discovery Freelancer. And that's why its dead here.
I saw that liner event, but to me that was not really the same thing. Again, no one really cared, there was never any real risk. You guys want this place to be full again, do what you all avoided for 10 years, since its the solution to our problem, and coincidentally the one thing they avoid supporting.
So no wonder the Liner situation didn't go well. Make each base like a Core 4, make them real NPC bases that it matters what happens to it, and it would be different. But yes we'd need to ease into things, but after a few months I think it would work just fine.
What are you talking about? No - they'd be in central location like e.g. near a PvE or mining Zone, an important PoB. The mechanic works exactly as you are proposing as long as you get players to agree. You would prove the concept works but you won't, because we both know you are just here to get attention on the forums, all butthurt about nobody liking your idea you aren't willing to actually work for. This is why you are talking here instead of proving the concept in-game.
And how was that liner not a same thing? We could have gained a movable solar - can you imagine what an extremist arm of a revolutionary faction could do with a captured lawful liner? Because I can . . . it was a straight up NPC Base up for grabs. We tried our best to defend it. On the end it wouldn't have mattered if it was core 1 or core 65, there are groups in the game that just steamroll you. If you play underlogged factions that can summon 5 people in peak time it doesn't matter how hard you try, you will lose against someone who can log 13+ on a damn Friday morning and they'd take over the entire game.
(09-11-2021, 07:52 AM)Karlotta Wrote: Again, you're just trying to brush over the central flaw with lots and lots of rhetoric repeating the same thing 50 times, without seriously addressing the reason your system will suck majorly: People don't enjoy being forced to log, being forced to grind, being forced to fight. No matter how often you say "believe me those who think they wont will enjoy it" this is not going to change. Your system isn't about freedom, it's about the opposite: its about coercing people to log and grind, or see the things they actually do enjoy destroyed. You will make things worse than they already are, not better. And even if forcing people to grind was a desirable thing, it still wont' have the desired effects because the grinding is to spread out in our current route/jh/mining system layout.
To me thats all irrational fear, its not about forcing people to grind, its about opening up actual avenues that make grinding at all worth it. Do you want players here or want it dead so you're safe? Like birds being pushed from the nest, the best thing for this place would be for it to be thrust into something new. There are plenty who would continue here but its the feeling of it being dead end that makes someone play something else for the day/evening instead of disco. We can remove that but yes we'd have to take our chances and nothing that happens here is set in stone so I really don't see the problem. Its players wanting to have it all and not play, not do anything to keep what they want that is why no one bothers with more than the bare minimum online these days.
No one will be forced to do anything, if you can't handle it just don't participate, and who cares if some stations change hands and cause us to have a fluid interactive story/world? And something to serve as an allure to vets and potential new players. You should be willing to risk an NPC station to risk enticing people to play here. It cannot possibly get worse than what it already is.
(09-11-2021, 09:01 AM)Relation-Ship Wrote:
(09-11-2021, 04:15 AM)Binski Wrote: To also address your first post, no offense, but no one cares if you build a couple of POB's, over months, just to provoke one short, terrible battle. No one cares because nothing makes them, the way its set up is that not fighting is the best way to win and get what you want in Discovery Freelancer. And that's why its dead here.
I saw that liner event, but to me that was not really the same thing. Again, no one really cared, there was never any real risk. You guys want this place to be full again, do what you all avoided for 10 years, since its the solution to our problem, and coincidentally the one thing they avoid supporting.
So no wonder the Liner situation didn't go well. Make each base like a Core 4, make them real NPC bases that it matters what happens to it, and it would be different. But yes we'd need to ease into things, but after a few months I think it would work just fine.
What are you talking about? No - they'd be in central location like e.g. near a PvE or mining Zone, an important PoB. The mechanic works exactly as you are proposing as long as you get players to agree. You would prove the concept works but you won't, because we both know you are just here to get attention on the forums, all butthurt about nobody liking your idea you aren't willing to actually work for. This is why you are talking here instead of proving the concept in-game.
And how was that liner not a same thing? We could have gained a movable solar - can you imagine what an extremist arm of a revolutionary faction could do with a captured lawful liner? Because I can . . . it was a straight up NPC Base up for grabs. We tried our best to defend it. On the end it wouldn't have mattered if it was core 1 or core 65, there are groups in the game that just steamroll you. If you play underlogged factions that can summon 5 people in peak time it doesn't matter how hard you try, you will lose against someone who can log 13+ on a damn Friday morning and they'd take over the entire game.
Bud I've played here since 2012, I observed a few things in that time, and my main motivation is to salvage the server so it doesn't end up totally lost to time. What I don't like is being shut up out of anger because the truth hurts. Don't get mad at me for pointing it out, get mad at those with the power to make changes but don't.
The problem with the liner is that its not a standardized situation. An event comes and goes, but in between nothing happens and you can't just form a group and go to work making plans. The Maquis should be sieging bases all the time, trying to capture planets, etc. That would entice me to want to put time and effort into it again. Instead the way things roll on is painful. It worked for years, then it didn't but we continued anyways. Then the Gallic war was wrapped up and another silly made up war with Kusari, it was time the mostly fixed story end. Instead its like the server ended, but many did and do want to keep it going.
So its not the same to set up POB's, it would prove nothing. Like I said its not about individual sieges. Its about creating a new consumption dynamic that links to rp and story progression. The difference with my idea is: People would know its not just a one time, or once in a blue moon event. People would be able to challenge over existing NPC bases repeatedly, meaning if they lose, they can try again in either case of attacking or defending. The liner just tip toed up to the line, but still avoided the better case scenario.
The system opens up chance, that creates tons of jobs that could be filled by those who enjoy disco not feeling so dead end. A faction could work together to gather scidata however they like, and really give thought to where they may want to strike. That alone changes the value of our stuff and creates many opportunities to fill needed roles. Its not knowing where or when a faction may make a move that will get people online and working to be prepared. That alone will increase random interaction during that time, let alone the actual battles. The system, if properly operated by the staff, would solve many problems and let people know that its not over at Discovery Freelancer. Again, that helps just getting people to choose disco over something else.
So lets run a scenario. The Gaians want to capture Planet Gaia (surprising?). Cruisers may be slow but if they could muster some players over a couple of months, save the sicdata, they could still make the attempt at least.
That alone means so much occurs to play to for other factions like the Molly's, CR, all of Bretonia, etc. So say they get their week long siege, and they siege the base in orbit to stand for a base to target. What would happen?
Right away, people would know such things could happen, and there would be many who would happily go back to playing to just be around and see what happens. If they attack, we see a battle break out. Anyone who could fight the Gaians could easily show up to defend against their takeover. Would Bretonia invade if they succeeded? Would the CR?
Say they succeed, and someone then immediately wants to challenge them for the planet. Say its Bretonia, so they could use a faction to issue the challenge and counter siege it. Or maybe they decide to stay out of this one, and the CR is then unhappy over it, so they decide to save up and challenge for it.
But maybe Auxo is challenging them in Coronado for their base on Pecos, so they don't have it in them to fight in both places, can't afford the scidata. So maybe another faction steps up eventually?
Imagine even if you would just want to RP as a Press faction and report on the happenings for the Colony News, you could do that! Why does all of this sound so terrible again?
Another scenario, in Delta, the Core could attack Dabadoru Station, try to finally route the last of the Order's presence in the system. At least they could try, and that base is protected by a POB so it has additional protection. And technically, say they succeed and catch the Order at a slow time, the Order can then make its purpose the recapture of the station. They could then try to build up to earn a siege, keep the Core on the defense and fighting for it. Population is low but if we allowed this I would bet my life that would not be a problem in a couple of months. Worse case is, dead factions would be reduced to a couple of core stations. If a faction can maintain interest, they won't just disappear overnight. A faction would either be a dominant one that would need to maintain itself after earning its gains, or smaller factions would have a reason to fight as the underdog, working to restore what was lost. At least even in losing there is open ended opportuniy, purpose to being there and trying. And we'd have organized, fair, regular change going on that we all helped create.
In most places we'd see things go back and forth. The system I wrote out made border stations the weakest and cheapest. Its a trap! Factions may get caught skirmishing over smaller stations most of the time, the fighting would most be over control of the trade lanes and jumpgate areas. But every so often a faction could gain enough strength to make a big move on a big station or planet. House military factions would have real reasons to exist again!
The main idea is that not knowing means we have all sorts of real things to do again! Yes I still believe we'd be better off taking a chance on trying it out!