A trader orders his escort fighter to distract a pirate fighter so the trader can get away. The trader continues to the next system and docks there while the escort fights the pirate.
So the trader is safe now, but the escort can not break from the fight. He now is forced to destroy the pirate. If he does not, he is not allowed to escort his trader back the same route if the pirate stays in the system.
I already had some constellations where neither I or my opponent could win the fight for a long time. But there's no possibility framed by PvP-rules the escort could brake from the fight to follow the trader and to escort him back again.
Instead for example the gunship escort has to stop in front of the system with the pirate in it and has to say to the trader:
"Dear trader, I would surely just love to escort you through that system again, but there is that lone pirate-eagle (or light fighter) which I am too afraid to distract for you again"
Now my questions:
1. Am I right there with the PvP-rules?
2. If I am, does anyone know a rolepleay-way around that discribed situation?
' Wrote:for those who missed it: the moral of it all is ----> traders with teeth are fun for pirates. - within reason.
Actually I think if the pirate is destroyed the escort can go back with you, if the escort flees from the pirate than he cant.
As for RP justification, there is none, it's to prevent people from vengeance KO'ing. What if your escort fled because he was losing instead of in order to continue to escort you. The he gets to re-arm and the pirate might not. This just wouldnt be good. Someone else please verify though.
I'm sure there's been a discussion about this before, but I don't remember where. Maybe somebody could link it.
For what it's worth, I believe - and this is certainly how we practice it in Gateway - that the escort is really an extension of the trader. The escort is there to guarantee safe passage from Point A to Point B, and in our case is often under instructions from the trader. As such, the escort needs to continue on with the trader as soon as s/he is able to disengage from the battle. To me, this includes passing back through, since it would seem the escort-as-extension falls under the same context as the trader, and traders are allowed to pass back through.
Of course, I'm not sure the rules support my view, so err on the side of caution. If not, maybe some sort of exception needs to be made. Perhaps if the trader stays in-system until the escort is able to rejoin him/her, it would qualify as a trade mission.
...actually, this has NEVER come up before, to my knowledge, and it's a damn good question. Certainly more important than that peen-waving competition going on in the other thread.
The answer, methinks, is that the reengaging rules shouldn't apply in the context of trader escorts. Their job is not to kill the pirates, its to keep the pirates away from the traders, so I don't think it's fair to penalize them for that.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
' Wrote:...actually, this has NEVER come up before, to my knowledge, and it's a damn good question.
Good to know, and it's an excellent question.
Quote:The answer, methinks, is that the reengaging rules shouldn't apply in the context of trader escorts. Their job is not to kill the pirates, its to keep the pirates away from the traders, so I don't think it's fair to penalize them for that.
Yeah, we're definitely in agreement there. Probably, though, something ought to be specified about the escort staying with the trader until threatened or engaged by the pirate. I've had situations where my escort went clear off (out of convoy) to fight a pirate that wasn't a threat, or even on scanner for that matter. They'd clearly have to fall under the 4-hour PvP rule then.
' Wrote:...actually, this has NEVER come up before, to my knowledge, and it's a damn good question. Certainly more important than that peen-waving competition going on in the other thread.
The answer, methinks, is that the reengaging rules shouldn't apply in the context of trader escorts. Their job is not to kill the pirates, its to keep the pirates away from the traders, so I don't think it's fair to penalize them for that.
Actually, this HAS come up before in discussion - I know it's around on here somewhere. But I'm at work (still) and can't do that much searching.
Trader escorts: If they fail to kill the pirate, then you contact the pirate to see if you can come back through. If he allows it, fine. If not, then whoever you're escorting should go a different route. The re-engaging rules DO apply to the trader escort directly. However, since the trader himself could come back through, the Admins did mention what I said above (again, in here somewhere).
Trust me - as someone who flies a bounty hunter and does a fair amount of escorting, I know this one.
The job of escorts is to keep the transports safe, but that doesn't always -- or often, even -- mean destroying threatening ships. The escort only needs to occupy and distract the ships long enough for the traders to escape. It is fundamentally the same situation as transports working alone.
I would like to know the specific reasoning behind absolving traders from the 4 hour rule but not escorts.
Are the escorts also absolved if they are also trading commodities? Would a freighter who is part of a convoy with transports count as an escort?
it depends on the context, but if i was pirateing and a escort of a trader fought me untill the trader got away and then left. i would not report them if they came back and continued to defend their trader. as long as they did not seem like they were being jerk-ish about it.
i am inclined to say that it does not count as reengageing.
' Wrote:<span style="font-family:Century Gothic">Violence is Golden</span>
From the escort missions I've done, the escort uses his best judgment to help steer clear of pirates in the first place. When a pirate encounter is unavoidable, and for sake of argument, an engagement ensues. Now all the Transports make their escape and then escort breaks off the attack to regroup with the convoy. All is merry the rest of the journey and now comes time for the trek back. If the escort guy was truly inRP, he would not lead a convoy through a KNOWN pirate hot zone he was just hit in, he'd take an alternate route (if applicable). In the sake of being hit in a bottleneck system, I think it would be best to reconsider your trade route. Once again, as a captain, your crew's then cargo's safety safety are your primary concern and you wouldn't knowingly put your ship in danger. My $0.02.
For the subject at hand, IF you're going to brave all hell and intentionally fly through known hostile space, it would be pretty pointless to tell your escort, "Sorry man, you ran away last time. You go around while we continue through." I guess I support "It isn't reengaging for escort duty"
Well if escort has a trader ID, or say transports faction Id.. then there shouldn't be a slightest problem. He's in all respects a trader.
Should he be a merc... well an attack on his trader should count as self defense for him. Rules don't say that right now, but really I think admins would support that.
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