As most of you know, the highest commodities (profit) are ores
The ores are obtained by either mining or buying from a Player Owned Base (POB).
Since the release of BARGES, many do trade ores using barges.
That trading is causing trouble which should be maintained as soon as possible.
In order to understand the problem, you will need to understand how POBs are filled.
The POBs are filled by a complicated process that players name (Mining Operations).
Mining operations require a lot of coordination, Presence, Security, and Time.
So to fill 200,000 ores on one base requires at least 1 to 2 miners and 1 to 2 transports (Total 4 players or more).
Be advised that the cargo space for a large base is close to 300,000 units.
The base will have life support materials and others for tear and wear so the cargo capacity will shrink.
Now, let me explain the problem since you digested the previous lines of information.
The POBs cargo capacity is balanced to the 5ker ships, not the barges.
The barges empty the bases from ores so fast, in no time because of the 30k cargo space it has.
The problem is that it makes it so hard for base administrators and suppliers to bring more ore
They use about 2 hours to make 200,000 units and fill a certain base,
then a couple of barges make a few visits and the stock is all gone within 24 hours max
It is very very hard for the miners and the suppliers, no matter how hard they are dedicated to the process to fill again the base fast enough.
We need a fix for this problem, and I think this can be fixed by one of the following suggestions.
1- Increase the size of the cargo modules so the bases can carry larger amounts to fit the barge trading ores. 2- Make the barges for supplying bases with ores, construction, or crafting materials only. 3- Increase the number of cores of bases, so by that change, the admins of bases can build more cargo storage modules. 4- Increase the number of modules that can be built for each core, and then you do not have to increase the cores.
Note: I am an owner of a large enterprise POB business on the discovery server, and those are my 2 cents (suggestions) for fixing that problem
Trust me when I say that I have a vast experience with POBs since I built and participated in building more than 15 large POBs here
I play on the discovery server before POBs were implemented. I believe that enhancing the system is possible, thanks to the developers here.
Please feel welcome to share your suggestions too... and I hope that you deal with this thread in a reasonable and mature way.
I am not against Barges at all, I am just trying to find a good balance for their existence because they are awesome
This is just an open discussion, please do not react as if one of those suggestions is being implemented.
Personally, I think 1 and 4 are the most viable. For (2) It'd be hard to restrict usage of a ship outside of ID requirements. (3) would really only benefit the big PoBs, not the smaller ones maintained by one person, because it'd become that much harder to maintain the higher core bases just to stay afloat.
I can't speak to the dev process of implementing the changes, but knowing I could store more for the amount of work I'd be putting in would make me more likely to invest in a PoB just for my own purposes, rather than just banking for a barge and having no maintenance concerns.
*Edit* - or if there was a way to implement a bulk surcharge somehow for purchases over 5k, that could benefit the PoB owners who are getting drained quickly.
I used to participate in a lot of mining operations because I wanted to have every cap in the game with good armor. Now that I have reached my goal (somewhat) I dont participate in them as much if at all. Eventually your going to run into the problem where people have everything they want or need. There are some who I wont mention out of respect that have enough money to buy everything in the game thrice over. Where am I going with this? Glad you asked. I dont think anything should be done on the development level. yeah I dont see how adding more slots in pobs could be a problem but what could help is more mining operations.
Call me old fashioned but if I run out of product I go get more product.
Just as the constant increase of entropy is the basic law of the universe, so it is the basic law of life to struggle against entropy. - V. Havel
TBH Barges should be made SRP again. At this point almost half of the active playerbase has one.
Otherwise, I'd make them unable to dock on Trade Lanes and increase their cruise speed to something like 160, with significantly increased cruise charge time.
They should be used for local in-system supplying only, or a couple of systems at most, not for hauling Xeno Relics across half of Sirius.
As the only active exclusively Cargo pirating faction in the game that flies in without bombers/ bomber support when traders come we'd like to chime in.
The state of the Barge is excellent. Lower cargo modules means Barges need to fill the bases more often,with ore.
That means I know where you are more often, I know what you are doing and where more often. You are a fat target with lotsa juicy cargo that has to sit in a place to get it. The proportion of cargo you lose relative to your hold is also a lot lower than when you fly a 5ker - making an incentive not to F1 or cruise away from cargo demanders without pirate lines (but with kill lines they only use when you don't cooperate)
5Kers can just cruise away from our cd transports when we don't have expensive cloak. Increase cargo module sizes and I have less opportunities to get you (can't be in game 24/7. If you'd mine in one sitting for a week we'd miss all that). Remove Ore possibility and I won't know what you are up to, you don't have to sit in a place.
- From our perspective, the state of the Barge is now ideal.
I do not really see a problem. You are the supplier, they (barges) are the consumer. What is the purpose of you mining and selling ore? Earn money, I suppose, since you mention you are running a business. You do not lose money if they buy a lot of ore. In fact, you benefit greatly because they buy all of your stock in one go and you get a lot of money in one go. You gain profits, they gain profits. The system works as it should. So what is the issue? That other potential buyers cannot get enough ores to sustain themselves? Well, that's called competition and as a supplier you should not be too much concerned about it.
There are quite a few groups that have some success keeping their PoBs full of ores, but with a greater percentage of traders vs mining operation participants out there, the busiest stations often run dry pretty quickly. Gold/Alum alone keeps local corps scrambling to supply weekly.
The only suggestion I have is for those trading Barge owners to realize the issue they cause for mining bases and volunteer to supply them!
If your favorite base is owned by specific factions - join their Discord, offer to help!
It often only takes 1 or 2 people starting an op to get more to join and make it a good base fill!
Keep it fun! Those ops can be tedious otherwise!
Jump in a voice channel! Play some tunes!
Deck your mining transport out with crazy lights as a conversation starter!
Question the integrity and life choices of any FABulous pirates that show up to plunder your cargo!
Make friends with informative passers by who either want ore too or just to provide helpful propaganda before asking for donations!
If you give players a fun experience with such a mundane task, you can bet they'll watch for future fills to join...
People seem to forget that, supposedly, ore refineries for bases is coming sometime in the future?
The issue here is ores selling prices.
People use the Barge to trade ores because there is HUGE profit involved, and I'm not sure why that is.
One thing for sure is that for POB refineries to be functional, ore prices will have to come WAY DOWN. As long as there are payouts of 10k plus per unit of ores, ores are what people are going to trade. Greed is a product of human nature.
One can sell unrefined Iridium Ore for over 10k, but Processed Iridium sells for 299 in Delta?
How can refineries possibly work with these prices? Either ore has to come way down or their metals products way up. Especially since refineries will have a processing loss where it takes 5k ore to make 4k refined metal. It's untenable.
The source of the problem here is that the profits for ores are Hella outrageous.
Making the best sellpoints dockable by only smaller ships would suck, but it the only really viable way to fix the issue. Of course, a large ship with a docking bay could carry a small freighter as a work-around but then that fat, juicy target would spend a long time hovering and vulnerable while being off loaded much to the delight of pirates.
I have a Barge, but have never yet used it to haul ores. And that's from a player who has always RP'd as a Bretonian metals and ores carrier. Metals being a specialty of Bretonia, it just made sense.
And, yes. My Barge was paid for by hauling ores for months on end in a 5k.
But again, I'm specifically an ores carrier, since way before mining was something worth doing. (2012)
Taking the ridiculous profit out of ores would resolve this problem, and needs to happen anyway to make refineries usable. Also, making refineries capable of making the Metals and Alloys used by POB's for repairs and their factories would generate a more realistic supply and demand for these products, increase that type of traffic exponentially to the benefit of increased inter-POB RP, inter-faction RP, more profitable routes for traders, and more potential targets for piracy.
Yes, it would also spread out the traffic and possibly make pirates actually have to work for their money for a change. But can we please stop limiting traders so that pirates can camp a few sweet spots and pretend that piracy is the only worthwhile RP to be had? It's literally rage-inducing in the pirate types to even suggest such actions. It's currently so ridiculous that a trained monkey could successfully pirate in Disco.
Opening up the map of Sirius to activity and RP possibilities cannot logically be a bad thing. People complain about "silent traders" and "power-trading" as though it's not caused by the current state of the mod.
Give us things to do other than carry ores and get pirated or kwitcher b*tchin.
The Cleveland base in Penny is my example for this reply. Bristol own the base, not us. Kudos on the two gents who keep the base alive too(one of us, not Bristol players)
I will admit that I myself do not mine.
There are four/five players who actively fill this station. I run barges or 5k era to it to fill it.
Usually two to three miners.
The most reasonable pirate is Birdie.
The base pays us a split of just over a billion to fill it. It takes a few hours.
Everyone is happy.
There is no balance issue. The real issue is that PoB’s take more time to keep alive than to fill them with ore, that’s the truth here.
If PoB’s can be put back to the consumption rates they were before then it’d be much better for those of us who actually use them.
As well as reducing the wear and tear consumption rates, I support making each cargo module have more space. It would vastly help.
The biggest problem with keeping Bases stocked with ores is there is a lack of people willing to mine.
Having more Storage, either having more modules per upgrade or making Storage Modules have more capacity, isn't going to solve the problem.
If you have a bigger Storage capacity it will just mean that the Ores may take a bit longer to be depleted, but you will then need to spend more time filling them back up to full.
The Barge Owners that like emptying these Bases will just have to learn that when the ore is gone, it is gone, and they will have to wait until someone spends the time filling them.
If they find a Base empty, they could always log a miner and help to fill them (this is an added bonus, in that the Ores they buy are, effectively, free).
'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are' Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person