I've been reviewing the AW - TBH situation, and I found certain 'inconsistencies' on both sides.
I'll enumerate them now:
[color=#33CC00]Main questions, mostly for the Admin team, but all are allowed to answer
As the AW lost it's official status, do they still control Omicron-74?
If the AW does not have space of it's own, do they have the right to patrol those places? What would happen to all those non official factions who try to do the same?
If question number one is yes, then, AW ZoI would be O-74 and all systems connected to them, like Theta. Would this order from McNeo be legal? I thought that docking ships on the enemy territory was not allowed, and considered as being OORP. And that leaving ships on enemy territory was considered as camping. They should be hostile to their NPC, hence unable to dock there.
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I've also been reviewing the AW situation as a whole, and I came up with the following doubts
[color=#33CC00]Other questions. For all to answer
Should the AW retain Zoner association?
If you think that the AW should not be affiliated to the Zoners. What other NPC do you think the AW should be affiliated to?
Do you think there is anything not right with AW current politics / behaviour / RP? If so, specify.
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I think that, before this war is structured, and allowed, those points should be clarified first. Objectives should be set, and timed battles should also be agreed upon, so this can be defined once and for all.
The first reason why the AW and TBH went hostile was because the TBH allowed the SCRA to attack the AW from their space, and later joined with them against us. Current reasons for war are somewhat offset from the primary reason, which also is no longer an issue, as I heard that SCRA and TBH are hostile now to each other.
Flames, off topic, childish behaviour, and the like, won't be tolerated here. [color=#CC0000]Answers have to be justified. I don't want to hear a "no, cuz 1 d0n't laik them". I want to hear reasonable answers. This is a reasonable topic, which might also help to reform the AW, if a reform is considered necessary.
(If you find any mistake in my English, please let me know via a PM)
(Really, I speak terrible English, so please, tell me if I make mistakes. I'd like to improve it a bit )
1: i think no, it must be started again as faction, as OPG. (they was here before and now they msut start from begin)
2: one thing is patrol and try to someone force out of space, other thing is to be enemy to someone and attack him .
3:theta is connected to o74, and it is connected to gamma too. so theta is between o74 and gamma, for who is it enemy territory? for aw or for corsairs? both have right to dock on zoners bases.
I. no zoners have no enemies, and they try to be neutral with all factions near their territory
II. outcasts. in last days always when corsairs are near aw AW is waiting for their friends outcast. so when so strong friendship why not the same faction ? but on the other side outcast presence in o74/theta will unbalance situation in this side of sirius.
III. what i dont like is that aw on one side say that they are zoners or zoners guard,on the other side they make alliance with outcast which make from them hostile to corsairs and not neutral as zoners.
and current reason for this war is because someone dont like that corsair will be in theta too as all other factions. (zoners,bh,outcast etc...) and noone from corsairs dont like policy that they can be here but you can not. and theta is too close to gamma. we can not have our backyard not guarder. most of the attack in last weeks start in theta.
that is my opinion on your questions.
EDIT:
//and dont forget that zoners help corsairs with food from biodomes on freeport in theta. so denied acces to corsairs is the same as let them die. and then you have all available corsair ships in theta. because then it will be war for food, not for politic.
Allright.. as one just looking and scratching his head about what crazy things are happening...
1.No, doesn't it say in the rules that only official factions can own/control systems? I would say you can be there but not order Zoner IDed/Tagged players in any way.
2. Yes. Why not? non-official factions also patrol many places... but they can't attack players with same/allied ID.. just because they don't want them around.
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I. No, Zoners should be basically evading conflict right?
II. No tag/ Military id... or no tag/Freelancer ID. Don't see any NPCs that fit them... or yes.. defect to Outcasts but that will get them kicked from O-74 completely.
III. I have seen AW helping Outcasts against Corsairs many times... not really zoner-like.. hence drop the Zoner association.
From my corner it is now very much a big mess in Theta. Right now I saw 5 Battleships and some 3 Cruisers there. Is it some kind of "I have a bigger one" contest?
Also seeing all of these docking on the same base is even better fun....
So yes... decide who can dock on which base (not all on FP9).
I would say that:
AW only in O-74
TBH/Corsairs only in Gamma
Outcasts in Eta.
One thing is your egos or whatever.. another thing is how it looks for 90% of the server that doesn't have any idea what it's about...
all those new players that we are trying to show what RP is and that capships should not be spammed... so they go to Theta and see this:angry:
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
1. )
of course they do not govern any space anymore, untill they "repurchase" the system - but the system should stay "reserved" for them to be repurchased - meaning, no other faction should have the right to claim it unless the AW makes it clear that they do not have the intention to buy it back again.
2.)
they have every right to patrol and make all the rules that any other non faction player has. - they have no right to enforce a law by the rules of the server - but can make laws that are down to roleplay. - that means, someone breaking the laws imposed in RP has to face a RP consequence ( like being kos ) - but cannot be sanctioned for violating the laws ( as it could possibly be the case if someone broke a law of a guard system as the laws there are server rules )
as the AW have possessed the system before as a regular and accepted official faction, they sort of enjoy a higher standard / right than a casual independent - mostly due to the fact that they have more insight into the matters, cause they shaped it more. they do not have the right to "govern" over theta anymore than the casual independent though.
3.)
if we assume that the AW has no right over their guard anymore - they have no right over freeport 9 anymore. - that is to say, no sole right over freeport 9 - however.... i think that in RP, they could request at the now highest installation of the zoners to deny docking rights to specific people / factions - limited to FP9 / corfu. - in that case that could be either the zoner council ( which would take ages to achieve a decission ) - or ask the [TAZ] directly as they are the only representing zoner faction, even if they have little to deal with fp 9.
I.)
its been discussed - and my own opinion is - "no". they have closer ties to the outcast ( or so it seems ) - but retain their neutrality. - they are hard to catch in the common factions. - a faction of close knit freelancers describes them well, imo. - like the BHG, who use freeports as their bases, the AW could be a unit that uses FP9 so much, that they have been given the right to run it in the first place - yet not being zoners. that idea would cut them from corfu base and the places that the zoner specific ships are sold though.
they should remain closest friends of zoners - but not be associated with the basic idea of zoners anymore. - since they have their own ID, its not really a problem. - they are NO zoners.. they are the Asgard warriors, period. As for the [Tag] - a zoner tag can remain, as they do have ties with zoners that are deeper than even BHGs - but other factions should not consider them zoners. ( but this opinion is down to discussions , and mine is very subjective )
II.)
answered before - hard to say ... imo, they should have a freelancer tag - but its so hard to get that one cannot really make them get it
III.)
the politics are perfectly fine - assuming they are not zoners. if they insist to be zoners, their policy is wrong, cause they are building up enemies. zoners do that, too - but in my opinion, zoners "steer" it the way that - for example outcasts would fight corsairs - and not zoners fight corsairs. zoners are acting in the second row - AW is acting in the front row. - too much spotlight in a war for a unit that is associated with zoners.
if however, we cut the AW from the zoners - they can do what they are doing without any RP problems. - they have the station, they have the right to govern their space, - but what they do is not the will of zoners, but their own one. they are not guarding zoner interests but their own - if we think that way... its all good.
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i do think that the AW are doing a good job as the AW. they are a faction that runs the place, brings politics and a "third" force into these places. - what i do not think is that they are representing the zoners. but for what they do - its not necessary to represent the zoners. they can be AW, they can become official again - they can regain the guard system, but what they do is their own business.
zoners do their stuff differently.
edit: too bad that there is no "military" tag...that would fit well. they are a non house or pirate affiliated military - if ever a faction could have this tag - its the AW ( well and the SCRA - come to that - are faction tags hardcoded? ... )
2. Absolutely. This game is called Freelancer, not factionlancer. You don't need to be a faction or part of a faction to excercise RP.
Other Questions
I. This is like the SCRA and the Xenos. It's the only thing that fits us, even though we are completely unaffiliated with the Xenos. Interestingly, the SCRA are neutral to the Xeno Alliance, and they to us. Simply put, the Xenos hate outsiders, and the SCRA are outsiders. As a result, there really is no connection besides the tag, which is purely for convienence's sake.
In my opinion, if the AW were to revive itself, keep the Zoner tag, but disassociate yourselves from Zoners. It's the best that that fits you, but frankly, you aren't Zoners.
Not much to say about II & III, though I do have slight issues with the fact that I've seen random AW cruisers hanging around in Liberty space...
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
Tricky:unsure:...in all my experience with AW they never acted like Zoners in true meaning...i personally don't have anything against it, but if i were to put them under one tag it would be Outcast...
But for most part i would leave decision to them in what way their future RP is going to evolve.
AW as faction never were too peaceful, and that i can understand since fighting is large portion of this game. In the past i had problems with them wanting to go to war with IMG tagged faction, to choose Outcast side despite the fact they should be neutral, for fighting in large wars (HFvsSA for example)...that is all based on their Zoner alignment...if that should change all problems should be resolved...
This is my view on the matter at hand. Biasness of course, but seriously, who isn't bias (admins excluded of course;))
1. No, I believe that the AW do not control Omicron 74. The point was made quite clear I feel on the forums at the time when the AW lost its official status that they also lost the rights to a system that came with it.
2. You have the right to patrol these places and enforce small laws specific to AW (such as restriction of traffiking certain materials, stopping fights between two sides, etc), I think. However, restricting base access isn't within that, as that would be using power of the Zone of Influence, which I believe the AW lost when they lost their officiality.
Think of it like this. An independant Rheinland Military unofficial clan starts up, and begins enforcing RM law. All is good, until they try to bar docking to people who aren't on the RM official register. Then, the RM bans them from Rheinland space.
Okay, not the best analogy, but you get the point...
3. IF AW still controlled Omicron 74, it would most probably be official and would have rights to make laws as the ruling faction in the area, as it did in the past. And hence, if that were the case, my order/request would indeed be illegal. But that isn't the case. I took in all the facts and consulted the relevant people before making that post. Also, why would Corsairs be hostile to Zoners? They are supposed to tolerate each other, but the current reasons and my percieved alignment of AW displace that theory, as the AW, in my opinion, prefer to keep our right side fronts open to our heartland.
I. I maintain as I have done for some time that the affiliation of Zoner tag and ID does not fit. I would possibly look at Mercenary, Bounty Hunter or Freelancer IDs with the Zoner tag if you wish to keep your current role the same.
II. If you are also thinking about changing your affiliation, then I would recommend you pick something more friendly towards the Outcasts. If you are also thinking about changing your aims and objectives, then you might want to advance the story to do with the AW and mould them into something new and possibly completely different from what the AW are now.
III. From my perspective, the AW like to claim Zoner affiliation and neutrality, and yet side with the Outcasts, sometimes openly against us, while letting them through to our home system without allowing us to intercept. This lack of a buffer system worries us a lot, and there are many tactical reasons that this conflict had escalated into a war.
So, a summary of my views, picked from a chat I had with someone.
AW, being unofficial, has both the positive and negative effects of being unofficial. They don't have to follow any strict guidelines on faction management for one, as all these other unofficial ones can also do. However, being unofficial, they have no right to act under their own power to police an area. Just because you RP a group of Zoner "protectors", doesn't mean you have the right to police said territory in a way an official faction would or claim bases in the area to be your own, as well as the guard system. AW is indeed a unique case as they were official but have become unofficial. They should get used to the fact that, losing their officiality meant that they lost what power they had to do as they wished in their ZOI, which doesn't exist anymore in terms of the rules of the game. However, the AW also don't have to adhere to the strict rules that official factions have to adhere too.
EDIT: Oops, forgot the AW have their own ID. Personally, I consider that to be a Zoner ID with a different name, but it does say AW on it.
My take on this is that this "war" has been coming for a long time.
It's never made sense to me that a group that labels itself as Zoner protectors would go to war with anyone, assuming their RP is to keep Zoners safe it seems that that would be pretty difficult if they were tied down in a shooting war with one group in a particular area.
I'd say give them freelancer ID, it seems to fit.
I also think in RP terms the Corsairs are completly right in attempting to do something in Theta. It's one system from gamma and has been used as a marshaling area (technically under the eyes of the AW) for its enemies for a while.