Well, I think I would feel bad if I didn't give my opinion on this issue. Granted, I haven't been here as long as some people, but I do -think- I know the current situation well so here we go.
Mal is right, no consensus is being reached because we're not addressing the key issues. Korrd started this thread with an attempt to answer some questions. I would like Dab to weigh in on these things. Go back to page one and read the questions. What do -you- think needs to be changed. If you don't think anything needs to be changed, say so. Because many people think something needs to be changed, can we at least agree on this little bit?
Secondly, I must say I'm interested in what is going on here, not only on the forums but in conversations. The Outcasts and the Corsairs are in a bloody war that is stretched on for ages ... blah ... blah. Don't you think that maybe our roleplayed characters come out in us a bit? When somebody posts, if they're posting their opinion, they are labeled something, Outcasts or Corsairs. My character is an Elder of the Brotherhood of Corsairs. But, I've tried to keep a very non-confrontational attitude with Outcasts OOC.
Now, before I get off my soapbox here, perhaps we have come to a conclusion. Something is wrong with the AW, and that something is probably their faction affiliation. What Jinx meant, Dab, was that you DON"T SHOOT ANYBODY. However, I can admit that I actually like the AW's RP, it's off the beaten path and is very attractive. (Also, I just got a glimpse of Lividia, nicely designed) If you had chosen any other faction with the exception of Junkers you would not be having these discussions.
Also, reading back over the thread, Hoodlum made a good point. I believe the key phrase is "relevant direction." Just something to meditate on.
"The thirteen saloons that had lined the one street of Seney had not left a trace. The foundations of the Mansion House hotel stuck up above the ground. The stone was chipped and split by the fire. It was all that was left of the town of Seney. Even the surface had been burned off the ground.
Nick looked at the burned-over stretch of hillside, where he had expected to find the scattered houses of the town and then walked down the railroad track to the bridge over the river. The river was there."
' Wrote:Once OC BS came out I've been getting the money to change it to a BS from Dread. BS isn't nearly as good as the Dread, so I wouldn't have planned on changing it if I just wanted the best.
The Caedo is for operations outside of Theta, such as helping other Zoners whenever high firepower is needed. Thats why I was going to change it to an OC BS, and might change it to an Osiris, IF there is less complaints about it. However, the battlestars are NOT small mobile weapon platforms. Would you rather an OC BS or an Osiris?
Also, your point is moot.. Neither of our Dreads has been destroyed or even severely damaged as-of-yet. The only BS we've had destroyed in the last month or two was the Ableben once, and i think we can agree that Livadia won't have any problem repairing it..
Also, of course we use one side's ships more than the other. That was a term of the cease fire, we weren't to use Corsair ships, only access to their equipment (which we used only sparingly in the first place..) Would you like us to use Corsair ships too, in the frame of fairness? Didn't think so. Outcast ships are the most-available in terms of RP, so thats what we used. Now I'm here trying to find a better suited one, the IMG Gunboat for the GBs, and Osiris for our single out-of-Theta BS, but you even complain of those, which gives me no incentive to change it..
Let's see. You say that you wouldn't have planned to change your OC dread with an OC BS if you just did not want the best. If so, why do you complain about the battlestar's incapability of serving as a mobile weapon platform, which is moot as well? One side of the comparison here is still aimed at the capability level of the vessels more than the availability.
What does 'Would you rather an OC BS or an Osiris?' mean at all? A threat to those who don't think using OC ships under the Zoner tag is fit? Want to hear what I would rather? Neither an OC BS nor an Osiris. Stick to the god damn battlestars! But I know, you won't.. Do I care? Not much.
Indeed, my point is moot. However, something what is not moot is, you don't repair a destroyed craft but something damaged. If the hulk is smashed into pieces, it would be collected, if possible of course, in order either for a scrapping operation or a possible recollection and reformation for a retrofitting to its slightly original ex-phase, which also depends on the capability of the educated labor force, amount of funds devoted within the overall budget and technological adequacy of your shipyards. Alright, you have the Livadia. Good. And I don't have the exact records of how many times your ships have been decimated or damaged in action. But due previous argument, there will always be a probability that your destroyed crafts in action may not recover back. How would one estimate this probabilty? Due to what kind of criterias or under which RP circumstances and requirements could we decide? Or just leave it as a free for all as long as no one dares to complain about one's lucridious broad array of handling any equipment he tends to put his hands on?
My entire point has been that harboring Outcast ships and especially, their big toys which they will not disembark for a very good reason, as well as using their weapons, under the Zoner tag will eventually put you into a marginal submission of Outcast partisanship which means that your so called group should be ready to refrain using their position for the guardianship of Omicron Theta as you will have no authority left to dictate the trafficking within that system as the pure sound of Zoners, in my eyes.
The frame of fairness would be valid if you were not reluctant to stick to a less intricate Zonership. But I fear, that is not the exact case. As far as I can see from here, you are in the very endeavor of keeping the options as broad as you can. Under these circumstances, the faction you are once again to revive will be nothing more than a marginal group of ex-Zoners, laboring for the forward protectorate of Outcasts into Theta space. Don't try to take refuge in the argument that AW have already been out of the pure Zoner elitism concept. The reason why I didn't say ex-AW is because you have been long due, while official, taken up the quest of ruling the trafficking of Theta space in the name of Zoners and their Council. You could stay still without interfering the hispanic war, but I would expect Corsairs violating any cease-fire they had signed in the past, at every opportunity, if I were you.
If Theta is the neutral outpost between the Corsairs and Outcasts, I don't believe that Corsairs would respect an exemption of a sporadic periphery, which is led by an Outcast sympathy, as an authority of the system on their way, but a rich source for plunder and pillage most eventually, just before they set foot upon the soil of their foes.
Just got back to this thread......
Some Zoner Expeditionary Fleet ships are Battlestars. I know this because I have run into them a few times in Gamma. It's a system surrounded by asteroid fields. It's one system further into a huge asteroid field than Theta is. How is it possible that they can operate Battlestars deeper in there but you cannot?
I don't believe that any Outcast ship should be available to the AW. They have an almost complete ship roster as it is. (Needs some sort of GB/Corvette). As for making the Juggernaut more asteroid friendly, I have a Corsair dreadnought that needs doing as well. While your at it, increase the hull strength to that of the Juggernaut. Better yet, why don't we just make them all identical or hey, just make the Corsair one better because.....
Non faction aligned cap ships that get crippled nip off to some repair dock and get fitted up no problem....
The reason they are faction aligned, I believe - within the disco universe - is so that each faction has an easily identifiable ship roster. If thats not the case then all shipyards can build and therefore repair any class of any ship. Hey, why not add weapons to the list as well.....
All they need is for one to dock there so they can take the schematics and they can copy it. It shouldn't matter that this might very well be possible in RL. I just think it would seriously damage the disco experience. Any ship for anyone or just change the one you've got till it's as you like it is not the answer.
I wish I knew how to take peoples quotes.....
"If Theta is the neutral outpost between the Corsairs and the Outcasts, I don't believe that the Corsairs would respect an exemption of a sporadic periphery, which is led by an Outcast sympathy, as an authority of a system on their way, but a rich source for plunder and pillage most eventually, just before they set foot on the soil of their foes."
I couldn't have put it better myself. I would probably used shorter words (I'm not good at the long ones).
Maybe "....especially when it is led by an Outcast sympathy...."
Would Outcasts really sell some of their best ships to a nation which openly welcomes and employs bounty hunters?
Knowing that they can re-build them, possibly from the hull up?
Don't they worry that they might get them coming back the wrong way one day?
Zoner ID is not for the AW period, as I said before. They are not neutral and have no intention of being so. Merc definately isn't (points well made and recieved) so it's what is left..take your pick.
And "Labouring for the forward protectorate of Outcasts into Theta space".
Spot on again. If you become dependent on Outcast assistance, you will become a puppet regime, basically another Outcast.
Lastly, I have to question the wisdom of such a faction being allowed to appear slap bang in the middle of a warzone, and then suddenly leaning over to the right (or left, depending on your perspective). It unbalances the entire area, especially in this case, for Corsairs. Whilst Dab made some good points about where the Zoners original home systems and gaurd systems are it doesn't change the geography. Omi 91 is the corsair gaurd system, Gamma is their home system. They cannot tolerate hostile warships one system away, anymore than the AW could. The AW fleets couldn't suddenly just 'turn up'. It would be all out war as soon as those ships started being built. And that close it would be war, all the time.
Allowing an Outcast friendly superpower in the next system is not really plausible. Dumping in a new mini-system to balance it out doesn't really make sense. AW may need a new lease of life maybe but I don't think being based in Theta is the way forward on these politics. Not anymore.