Option one is a total no from me, as it changes the whole Vanilla FL universe in favor of an non-vanilla faction.
Giving them Zoner bases and Zoner territory to act in it however they want is not acceptable.
Option two is much more fitting.
It must be done with maximum neutrality between two sides (Outcasts and Corsairs) and same treatment.
That means :
-Ditching the Outcast/Corsair (capital) ships/weaponry and using Neutral vessels/weapons.
-Allowing both sides to pass trough Theta with whatever they like, as long as they don't come near Zoner bases with whole fleets.
This is because you can't expect Zoners to put an end to Corsair-Outcast war.
They are not mad enough to get involved in it. They will rather keep what they can, then be crushed.
-Being a defensive faction, not offensive one. That means - no wars.
They should do anything to avoid an escalation, as any Zoners would.
In the future there can be a real war between Zoners and Corsairs as a whole.
But that time is not here yet, so you should not act like it is.
I don't know how 'fun' would this option be for it's members, as it wouldn't have as near as much PVP as now.
But, that's the whole point of Zoners, right?
The only other option that I see as acceptable is 'Defenders of Eta'.. Which wouldn't be really bad, I guess.
But it wouldn't bring anything new to the server/community.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
Unfortunately for some factions, insignia of the tag they wear do not completely cover their goals. I could suggest two things. First is a name change just as BSG successfully evolved into CR in order to sound more bound to Discovery. Second is a bit tough one. It is actually up to you, owners and leaders of the faction to decide whether following an offensive agenda will prove to bode well or not. Being a Zoner mercenary group could be considered but that would mean ditching the cruisers and battleships which probably wouldn't sound tempting for you. With the Zoner ID and tag, as stated already, I can neither see a war with Corsairs nor a direct revealed alliance with Outcasts but a limited defensive agenda. On the otherhand, there is the military ID option, which would mean to lose neutrality and lean on the lawful side. I don't see the freelancer ID as an option to be used within a faction to be honest. Actually, all depends on your willingness with deciding what to do and how to act. What would you think about reviving a non-used vanilla faction? That could recieve more backing up. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to go..
Well I told Korrd I wouldn't post here for awhile, so that people could give their opinions and talk amongst themselves for a bit. I think 30 posts into it would be acceptable..
Well first, we make no claim to ownership of any system at the moment, the question was merely presented to judge the opinions and knowledge of the others who were here, and because it had to do with question three. That being said, we will be remaking AW, but that will come after our trading division comes, and after our RP story has been started. We will be going for Omi-74 again, as I would suspect most of you would've guessed.
Still working on what exactly will be in it, but it will contain Luciaden's death scene, probably as a flash-back post, in the context of one person telling another about it. And then it will move on to the AW's current leadership, status, etc and of course, some interesting galaxy event like I did for GotP, though those ships won't be coming back.. The invincible ships were there to get Luciaden to demi-god status so that I could write his death.
To the second: We are currently 'patroling' Theta in the context of keeping out any and all piracy, as well as any fighting between people, with exception to fighting against the Corsairs, which was posted about in other threads, so I don't want to get into that here.
To the third; I personally see it as wrong.. However, I'd be willing to compromise. I gave this offer to two of the Corsair Dreadnaughts we fought last week. They can sit in space at the Theta JH in Gamma, or inside of Theta outside of the cloud (I know asteroids are no fun), just not docked at FP9.. Everytime I undock in my Jugg, I'm afraid someone will shoot me as I try to get unstuck from the main pillar (Jugg always gets stuck). That or you could dock at Corfu. However, when we have Omi-74 back, I'd see docking either station or staying in Theta unlogged would be rather OORP.
For question I; I want to keep it. I know our diplomacy isn't exactly the same as Zoners. Its never has been, and so long as we protect Theta, it never will be. No matter what we do.. We are between the Corsairs and the Outcasts. Either side must travel through Theta to attack the other's home system, which gets us blamed for 'letting them stage from Theta.' We don't actually do that.. The Outcasts only pass through.. And we can't stop them from doing that, as there is nothing to justify it. Just as we cannot stop the Corsairs from moving through to attack Alpha or Eta.
However, there is also people speaking of our past wars, such as with the SF and such.. Please remember that the majority of our wars occured BEFORE NPC affiliation was required or possible (tags weren't possible yet). So at that time we were simply AW. Not AW that is working with Zoners to defend Theta. After we were affiliated with Zoners, the number of wars we had greatly reduced, and we had less hostiles than before.
Now, for the last several months, starting from when we were still official we have had 2 factions hostile to us on our rep sheet. Now that includes the Corsairs and Harvesters. Before it was only the Phantoms (obvious reasons, and RP reasons), and Keepers (again, obvious reasons). Now it is those two, Harvesters (obvious reasons), OPG and TBH (TBH broke ceasefire 4 times, OPG aided them in attacks on AW in Theta).
The only friendlies we have are the TAZ, for obvious reasons, and the IND, as they are traders that frequent Theta a lot, and we had been friendly for quite some time. Don't know if they are still friendly or not, will need to know if it needs updated. Outcasts are on our NEUTRAL status, and will remain so. If they aren't, I'd be making a new status called; Mutual military struggle. That doesn't mean friendly or allied, it simply means we have the same enemies and we can help each other against those common enemies. If the war were to end, we'd be right back to neutral immediately..
We also never entered Gamma since these tensions with the Corsairs started, except when on our way to Kappa or Delta. We have not entered scanner range of Crete for a long time.
As for the Outcast ships.. I'm tempted to ask my members to move towards IMG GBs, if thats what everyone wants. For battleships, provide me with an alternative BS that can move through asteroids (thats why we only have 1 Jugg that stays in Theta. Can't move through asteroids) and I'll have us switch, and will even RP the Dreads being sold back to the Outcasts.
I'm running short on time, so I must finish this later.
' Wrote:As for the Outcast ships.. I'm tempted to ask my members to move towards IMG GBs, if thats what everyone wants. For battleships, provide me with an alternative BS that can move through asteroids (thats why we only have 1 Jugg that stays in Theta. Can't move through asteroids) and I'll have us switch, and will even RP the Dreads being sold back to the Outcasts.
Battlestar and Battlestar Advanced?
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
My real poroblem is that the Corsairs now face a unique situation among the major factions of Siruis which is a hostile faction one jump away from our capital planet. I thought (and I may be wrong) putting Omicron eta in the last release was to give a little more room between Alpha and Gamma, but that is meaningless if Theta is just as hotile to Corsairs as Alpha. By anyone's logic Theta would have to be in the Corsair Zoi, and to stop Corsairs from moving there is just plian not fair. Also this point of the AW not being freindly with the Outcasts, if they arent you shouldnt use their ships and weapons, (whether or not you can get them through rocks, every other faction has to be in RP for their ships, it's not as though you saw corsairs flying something beside the huntress untill the new cruiser was implemented,and the Huntress may be one of the worst ships for getting anywhere) Theta is a Zoner system for a reason, they should be a buffer between the Outcasts and the Corsairs, but that is not the case here, as we see AW and outcasts working together often. This is not a fair situation, as this leaves the Corsair unable to defend crete from threats only on JH away.
1) Not sure they 'control' it but I am sure given time that will change.
2)They do have the right I believe under their original mandate (although I believe that has changed, they don't seem too sure themselves). Lets be honest, it's only a matter of time before they become official.
3)I have to take issue with the question. Sorry. Why is Theta, being adjacent to O-74 come under AW influence?
It is also adjacent to Gamma, the Corsair home system which makes it very much, a Corsair ZOI.
As I see it, even the AW are struggling to keep up the mantle of neutral Zoners. If that is the case (and I am not saying it is), then the Freeport is exactly that. A freeport, open to all.
Mcneo therefore, is entitled to give that order due to Theta's proximity to Gamma.
I) Not sure they should keep Zoner ID. They are, by their own admitance, no longer neutral.
II) Definately not any unlawful tag. They are more like peacekeepers than pirates. I would suggest Merc because it gives a wider choice of actions or the Bounty Hunter tag if they continue the way they are.
(Yahoo, another BHG outfit).
III) I said the Merc because it allows more scope. I have seen AW ships grouped with BHG and Outcasts ships (though never at the same time). Whats wrong with this?
Aligning yourself with two of the corsairs greatest enemies will attract attention. Corsairs cannot have hostile warships next door. These are not fighters or even bombers. They are Battleships, Destroyers and Gunboats. It is simply OORP for the corsairs to accept this and unrealistic for anyone to think they would.
(I'm not sure how the Outcasts can ally themselves and fight alongside a faction who harbours and ally's themselves with BH but that is for another time). Zoners cannot sit on the fence over this either. The AW is aligning itself to two of Sirius' major factions, the lawful BH and the unlawful outcasts. They must decide where they stand...with the AW and therefore, not neutral or apart and remain out of it.
For a nation who supply food for an entire people who happen to live right next door, it strikes me completely at odds to go to war with them. This puts all Zoners in danger, especially at the FP and Corfe. Hardly a diplomacy of intelligence. AW may or may not be aware that BH ships have been raiding into Gamma for some time now and they are coming from the freeports in Theta and Delta. This was happening before the conflict started. Corsairs have to react to a system so close that harbours hostile warships.
If the AW lose their neutrality and their Zoner identity, then I don't believe they should have the Zoner gaurd system O-74. They must decide what they want and off the back of that, the other 'zoner' factions must decide.
With the ships; We use Outast Dreads because they can get through asteroids, where as the Zoner Juggernaut cannot. I was planning a small RP thread of us selling the Caedo back to the outcasts (as its a rare read) in return for a brand new OC BS, as its smaller and fits our uses better. No Battlestars an Bstar Adv. are NOT good at asteroids, at all. If they were, I'd have used them from the start. I'm still hoping the new Jugg that comes in 4.85 is good enough in asteroids that I can have all our BSs be nothing but Zoner Juggernauts.
For cruisers, we currently have a total of one Outcast Destroyer, which is going to be changed into a Zoner Destroyer quite soon, once I get the money for the refits.
On Gunboats, as I mentioned before, I'm willing to switch to IMG Gunboats if a lot wish it.. We don't yet have a Zoner Gunboat yet. We can't all be as lucky as the Outcasts and Corsairs and have a ship for each class.. We make do with what we have available, and I'm getting pretty sick of people who take that out on us.
We have no Sabres in AW at all.
I have ordered everyone to get rid of Falcatas and get Taiiden Bombers, from Freeport 11. We'd use Civilian Bombers, but I think Zelot can easily understand why we don't.. Flying targets aren't too useful.
Now this will be the last time I say this, as I've said it more times than I should have. If its said again I'll completely ignore it. Even in RP threads/message dumps. We are not allied, aligned, friendly, anything you come up with, with the Outcasts. As I told McNeo, we ask Outcasts for help as they are the enemies of the people currently hostile to us. If the Outcasts were to have attacked us instead, we'd be going to the Corsairs for help. You want us to stop working with the Outcasts when fighting you in Theta? Stop going to war with us. Also, we have been trying to use more mercs and BHG, even though I dispise using them, instead of calling on Outcasts to help us because you guys can't stop yourselves from complaining about it. Does it really make a difference if we have our enemy's enemy help us, or we pay someone to help us? It really has no difference what-so-ever, you just want to complain about it so you can call us 'not Zoners.' This is all I'll be saying on this subject now and in the future, regardless of what type of post it is put in. You've heard it from me, multiple times, you've heard it from the Outcast's themselves. Would you like me to ask CR to testify that we've never shot them in defence of the Outcasts? I could bring in a lot of Core members who would say the same..
@Chico; Theta comes under AW influence when we owned Omi-74. Omi-74 is the main and original Zoner Guard system. Theta is the main Zoner system, non-guard. So whoever has Omi-74 has Theta in their ZoI. Just like whoever owns Tau-63 (Blood Dragons) has ZoI of Chugoku.
Also, we are admittedly not neutral BECAUSE we are stuck between the Outcasts and the Corsairs. No matter what we wish, neutrality or no, we will be stuck between the Outcasts and Corsairs, and that will result in these things happening. All AW can do is try to reduce the tensions, which is what we tried by staying in Theta, and not entering Gamma, and not sending any threats.
I do agree with you on point II, we have never been very unlawful. The closeest we've ever been to unlawful was when we fought SF and SA when helping the HF. That was an RP alliance and we went in only to help HF when SF got involved (HF ws getting mobbed by numbers, so we came in until SF agreed to leave the war to Libertyand HF only). Other than that, the wars with SF all happened before NPC affiliation came, so we weren't Zoners during that, plus all but one were because of the SF.. We only started one. Those wars were more personal than RP really..
In the meantime, we've been defending Theta from fighting, and especially defending traders from pirates. Thats what we've never allowed, even HF wasn't allowed to pirate (even though they never did anyway) and we wouldn't allow people to pirate traders hostile to us either..
Merc wouldn't work. For one, we can't have any capital ships with Merc IDs. Second, just because we group with BHG occasionally doesn't mean that we are mercs. The only BHG and mercs we are ever grouped with are those that are helping us or being paid by us. We never group with Outcasts. Only time we have in recent times was when training (helping them test their new BSs or loadouts against ours).
Also, Corsairs have one really screwed up version of aligned.. Grouped in no way means aligned.. Not even close. We group with BHG for a small matter or because they are helping us when paid, and now all of the sudden we are allied? I don't see how that connects at all. Also, as stated, we don't group with Outcasts, we are not aligned, we are at best connected by; 'Mutual Military Struggle.' Which means that we are both enemies of someone, and we help each other if we find them under attack by that person/group. It doesn't even get to friendly.
On the BH attacking Gamma, well none of you said anything to the AW, nor was any evidence provided. If you wish to complain about something, you bring it up with the relevent parties, not hold on to it so you can complain later. Delta is not ours, in control, RP rights, or responsibility.
Now, on the matter of Theta being next door to Gamma, perhaps we can ask Igiss for something similar that he did for Alpha. Put a mid-system. Omicron ***** connects Theta and Gamma. I could even make the system for him. Simply put a single base (forward outpost like Palermo) and a few planets.
I'm forgetting something, I know it, but just can't think of it.. Maybe it'll come tomorrow..
Quote:I have ordered everyone to get rid of Falcatas and get Taiiden Bombers, from Freeport 11. We'd use Civilian Bombers, but I think Zelot can easily understand why we don't.. Flying targets aren't too useful.
I do agree, but I still dont let the AFA fly any bomber other than the ROC. I don't think a ship not being suitable for a given situation is a reson to go OORP to get a ship that is better suited. When the Corsiars were stuck with the Huntress, you didnt see TBH flying around in Kusari Cruisers, becasue we are Neutral. The leadership of the Outcasts have made clear that they keep a tight reign of thier ships so I see it as unlikly that they would sell them to a faction that is merely neutral with them even if they have a common enemy. That would be like the OC selling ships to RM because they both fight Corsairs.
Quote:
Now, on the matter of Theta being next door to Gamma, perhaps we can ask Igiss for something similar that he did for Alpha. Put a mid-system. Omicron ***** connects Theta and Gamma. I could even make the system for him. Simply put a single base (forward outpost like Palermo) and a few planets.
Quote:2. You can choose from 3!!!!! Battleships.... "they all suck in asteroids" is not really a good reason to use some completely different for me.
Ahem. As the designer of the Outcast Battleship I can say that I actually designed the thing as modular and relatively easy to assemble. That thing was designed for mass-(as mass as one can get on the scale of a Battleship, of course)-production and export. One thing you'll notice about the Outcasts is that they have a huge-ass shipyard, something most other pirate factions lack, and as such our services are likely to be in fair demand.
As for "They all suck in Asteroids", I think that we can all agree that, at the end of the day, who's dead and who's not is what counts, if it's within the limit of RP, is it not? While I, as an Outcast, am not going to go down to Liberty and buy myself a squadron of Liberty Dreadnoughts because they handle better than the Outcast capital ships, if the potential for purchase of something that large exists, should they not use it if it legitimately gives them an edge?
EDIT: Oh, and I'd like to point out that the Battlestars weren't really mass-produced, and have probably disappeared.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen