Gate & Lane Tech

[Xoria]

We'll see how this goes, but this may be the first in a series of threads asking for the community to help us Discover Discovery. Specifically, we need to discover the science and technology behind certain aspects of the Discovery universe so that we can then create new commodities. If you have knowledge/expertise in chemistry, physics, engineering or other sciences along those lines, I'm asking for your help.

To explain briefly, I will be rebuilding the Gallic economy so that it largely mirrors the economic structure of the other Houses: imports from other Houses, and exports to other Houses. Gallia will also maintain an internal economy that is more complex than the Houses in Sirius. The key to this is that what is produced for export in Sirius, Gallia will not be producing itself. Instead, Gallia will need new metals, alloys, and high tech commodities of its own for its internal use as well as to export to its trade partners, while importing from its trade partners.

In creating these new commodities, there are plenty of gaps in the existing technology/commodity tree that we can fill. For example, Sirius already produces Super Alloy and Superconductors, which are both components of Gate/Lane Parts. But obviously these can't be the only components of such complex machines. This first thread is dedicated to discovering what other products go into construction of Jump Gates and Trade Lanes. In this case, specifically Gallic Jump Gates and Trade Lanes.

If we start with the understanding that Super Alloy is used for the structural components of Gates and Lanes, and that Superconductors allow for the transmission of the energy necessary to power Gates and Lanes, then the obvious questions to explore are :

1) Where does the energy to operate Gates and Lanes come from? Batteries? On-board nuclear reactors (fission or fusion?) Dark Energy collected somehow? Etc. What sort of gadget stores, generates, or collects the energy that is then sent through the Superconductors to power the Gate or Lane.

2) How is the energy that powers Gates and Lanes deployed? What is the gadget that transforms energy into the effect we experience when we use a Jump Gate or Trade Lane? What process does that gadget perform that sends you from one star system to another, or shoves you along the Lanes from one side of the system to the other?

Understanding the science and technology behind the way Gates and Lanes operate can then lead to the creation of commodities that are used in Gate and Lane construction. These commodities could either be gadgets themselves, like Superconductors, or they could be materials like Super Alloy.

So task 1 is to understand how the technology works, and task 2 is to create 2 new commodities that are related to the functioning of that technology. My preference is to create 1 new gadget, and 1 new material. These will complement the use of Super Alloy and Superconductors in Gate/Lane Part construction. Sirius will continue to specialize in low cost production of superior Super Alloy and Superconductor technology, while Gallia will specialize in low cost production of superior New-Gadget and New-Material production. The New-Material should probably be a new metal alloy, and will be composed of at least 2 new metal commodities that Gallia will also specialize in via GMS. The New-Gadget will also be built using at least 2 new Gallic commodities. So the task here consists of working backwards from Gate/Lane Parts to its high-tech components down to the raw materials.

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[Zynth]

If I remember correctly, all Trade Lane and Jump Gate technology stems from some ruins found on Manhattan.

Link here:
http://discoverygc.com/wiki/Valhalla

Apparently, all technology to do with Trade Lanes and Jump Gates are evidently Daam-K'Vosh technology and stems from ancient Daam-K'Vosh artifacts. The technology used is probably the same as that the Nomads use for their own lanes and gates.

So probably, it's some unknown dark energy thingy or something like a miniature Nomad Powercore like thing.

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[Aingar]

Well, regarding the trade-lanes, the way it works is making ships fly faster within the lane tunnel (obviously).
One way to explain it in kinda-sensible fashion is:
Every lane segment envelops any mass passing through in some sort of dark-energy field, effectively reducing it's mass and therefore increasing it's speed (conservation of energy law, if mass decreases, speed must increase to compensate). The field dissipates from the ship on it's own and lasts just long enough for the ship to reach another segment to refresh the field application.

This easily explains why disrupting lanes basically stops all traffic (the field isn't refreshed once you reach disrupted segment) and the ability to exit the field at will (turn the engines off, your *real* speed slowly reaches 0, which effectively reduces your *warped* speed to impulse-like, while the sudden deceleration "shrugs" the field off you.

Yes, it's somehow similar to Mass Effect propulsion, sorry, can't think of anything better due to replaying the first part.

About the gates, I'll try to think of something tomorrow, also since lanes increase speed, while gates create an artificial jumphole, which basically teleports you to the destination, skipping everything in between, I have no idea what lane/gate parts have in common, probably they're power distribution electronics, or dark energy emitters (which just get used in different fashion to get different results)

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[SnakThree]

With data from lore, ships don't fly faster while using lanes. Lanes bend spaces making distance between each lane ring shorter.

Add Gallic prefix to commodities and it's done.

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[Echo 7-7]

...If you have knowledge/expertise in chemistry, physics, engineering or other sciences along those lines, I'm asking for your help.

Yeah.

...This first thread is dedicated to discovering what other products go into construction of Jump Gates and Trade Lanes. In this case, specifically Gallic Jump Gates and Trade Lanes.

I daresay that I'd be qualified enough.

However.

What must first be decided, before we even delve into the most basic construction of Gallic Gate/Lane Tech, is revising the concept of its origin. It is marginally more plausible that Gallia happened upon an ancient DK information cache, like Valhalla One, and thus developed parallel tech. If you want to stick with the (in my view) poorer story of "Gallia Stole It" (lol Igiss) then what needs a better explanation is how it was stolen, and specifically what was stolen. Seriously, it'd be much nicer to retcon the lore here; it provides more opportunities for Gallic development of their own technology, not just the apparent parasitism that has occured for 600 years.

If we start with the understanding that Super Alloy is used for the structural components of Gates and Lanes, and that Superconductors allow for the transmission of the energy necessary to power Gates and Lanes, then the obvious questions to explore are :

1) Where does the energy to operate Gates and Lanes come from? Batteries? On-board nuclear reactors (fission or fusion?) Dark Energy collected somehow? Etc. What sort of gadget stores, generates, or collects the energy that is then sent through the Superconductors to power the Gate or Lane.

Either:

- Supercapacitors charged by nuclear fusion reactors; they release power on demand when activated, and re-charge when not in use. The miniaturisation technology necessary is probably derived from Valhalla One.

- Aether collectors. I use the term "aether" very loosely to refer to some undefined form of energy/field that is either omnipresent throughout the universe or easily quantified in the vacuum of space. Ie. bow to suspension of disbelief. Also potentially derived from Valhalla One.

It is necessary to distinguish between antimatter, dark matter, and "dark energy" (or "aether"). Wikipedia has some nice summaries on the first two which I have linked. They have distinctly different properties. The first is extremely difficult to handle, as whenever it contacts matter it annihilates and releases powerful electromagnetic radiation; the second is mysterious and only a theoretical existence in 21st century science. The last is a potential fictional element that could be used in lieu of a more proven scientific explanation.

2) How is the energy that powers Gates and Lanes deployed? What is the gadget that transforms energy into the effect we experience when we use a Jump Gate or Trade Lane? What process does that gadget perform that sends you from one star system to another, or shoves you along the Lanes from one side of the system to the other?

This particular element must have come from Valhalla One. It is the bridge between theory and application. Whether powered by energy mundane or supernatural, it is clearly not something humans could have developed for hundreds (or even thousands) of years unaided.

The best way to describe a Jump Gate is that it takes our energy and manipulates that, such that it recreates conditions very similar (or identical) to those in a "naturally" occuring Jump Hole. Those conditions synthesise a wormhole which is linked to the Gate's pair. Gates are not active 24/7 due to safety and power consumption concerns - notably the matter/energy bleedthrough which occurs around Jump Holes (this permits them to be seen in the visible spectrum; it is the "cloud" surrounding the Hole's event horizon).

Trade Lanes, on the other hand, take advantage of DK miniaturisation technology but work completely differently to Gates. They might be considered much simpler. Each ring is composed of a set of emitters, which when working in unison, create an "acceleration field" around fixed region. Placed in series, a Lane provides an acceleration between two points in space, allowing for apparent superluminal travel. It is difficult to explain relativistic concerns; my best suggestion is that net acceleration of a vessel is 1) conserved and 2) equal to zero, while displacement is a non-zero value.

A Lane is disrupted when its field emitters are disabled, causing the acceleration to fail. Presumably there are emergency field projectors on each Lane ring in the event of such an emergency; otherwise the rapid deceleration would crush a ship. Alternatively, ships may be equipped with inertial dampeners to compensate for these forces. Manually veering off-course from the Lane drops the ship out of the acceleration field, causing a similar series of events to occur (read: undocking from a Lane before reaching the end).

Understanding the science and technology behind the way Gates and Lanes operate can then lead to the creation of commodities that are used in Gate and Lane construction. These commodities could either be gadgets themselves, like Superconductors, or they could be materials like Super Alloy.

I would suggest that Nanocapacitors, which are already present in the mod, are used in Gate/Lane tech. It does make sense that Liberty is one of the biggest exporters of them; it goes hand in hand with Ageira's manufacturing of Superconductors.

However, a commodity such as "field modulators" or "electromagnetic accelerators" might be specifc, yet generic enough, to fit the bill here.

So task 1 is to understand how the technology works, and task 2 is to create 2 new commodities that are related to the functioning of that technology. My preference is to create 1 new gadget, and 1 new material. These will complement the use of Super Alloy and Superconductors in Gate/Lane Part construction. Sirius will continue to specialize in low cost production of superior Super Alloy and Superconductor technology, while Gallia will specialize in low cost production of superior New-Gadget and New-Material production. The New-Material should probably be a new metal alloy, and will be composed of at least 2 new metal commodities that Gallia will also specialize in via GMS. The New-Gadget will also be built using at least 2 new Gallic commodities. So the task here consists of working backwards from Gate/Lane Parts to its high-tech components down to the raw materials.

New metal? Could be anything, really. We've got a periodic table of 118 elements to pick from, and only a small fraction of those are in the game as standalone commodities. For example... Rhodium/Vanadium alloy rods coated Thallium Oxide? Possibilities are only limited by imagination (and materials technology).

If I remember correctly, all Trade Lane and Jump Gate technology stems from some ruins found on Manhattan.

Link here:
http://discoverygc.com/wiki/Valhalla

Apparently, all technology to do with Trade Lanes and Jump Gates are evidently Daam-K'Vosh technology and stems from ancient Daam-K'Vosh artifacts. The technology used is probably the same as that the Nomads use for their own lanes and gates.

So probably, it's some unknown dark energy thingy or something like a miniature Nomad Powercore like thing.

This is pretty much correct. Bear in mind that Valhalla One's vast repository of alien knowledge is not a stack of blueprints for different kinds of products; it catalogues extraordinary phenomena, materials advances, scientific principles and so on; by presenting information in a more fundamental format, it could be plausibly translated into something a human can comprehend.

To that end, I don't believe that Valhalla One specifically contained instructions for Gate/Lane technology. Rather, there would be explanations on wormhole theory, faster-than-light acceleration, and other things fundamental to the development of that tech. Therefore, I believe that humans would have gleaned: "This is how much globularon energy field strength and polarity required to generate a stable wormhole", not "this is how you build a Jump Gate".

It is important to note that Nomad technology is divergent from Daam K'Vosh technology. Being the progenitors of the Nomads, the DK had a huge influence of their racial development, mostly by leaving "caches" of information scattered throughout their old territories (Valhalla One is an example). However, it is still up to the Nomads to interpret that information and use it in their evolution.

Well, regarding the trade-lanes, the way it works is making ships fly faster within the lane tunnel (obviously).
One way to explain it in kinda-sensible fashion is:
Every lane segment envelops any mass passing through in some sort of dark-energy field, effectively reducing it's mass and therefore increasing it's speed (conservation of energy law, if mass decreases, speed must increase to compensate). The field dissipates from the ship on it's own and lasts just long enough for the ship to reach another segment to refresh the field application.

This easily explains why disrupting lanes basically stops all traffic (the field isn't refreshed once you reach disrupted segment) and the ability to exit the field at will (turn the engines off, your *real* speed slowly reaches 0, which effectively reduces your *warped* speed to impulse-like, while the sudden deceleration "shrugs" the field off you.

Yes, it's somehow similar to Mass Effect propulsion, sorry, can't think of anything better due to replaying the first part.

About the gates, I'll try to think of something tomorrow, also since lanes increase speed, while gates create an artificial jumphole, which basically teleports you to the destination, skipping everything in between, I have no idea what lane/gate parts have in common, probably they're power distribution electronics, or dark energy emitters (which just get used in different fashion to get different results)

This is similar but not quite the same as my explanation.

With data from lore, ships don't fly faster while using lanes. Lanes bend spaces making distance between each lane ring shorter.

Add Gallic prefix to commodities and it's done.

... No.

Please check the definition of "superluminal".


EDIT:

I just realised you're "unpacking" Gate/Lane Parts. There's only so far you can go with that in Sirius before you start to ignore the White Box lore.

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There was a sig here, once.

[Corsair]

Well, technically, it's a thingy. That makes you go really fast. Also, I second the notion that Gallia should have developed its own Gate / Lane tech rather than just stealing it from Sirius. How many headaches has that excuse given players here in the past?

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[Pancakes]

Why people never ask me? I feel insulted.

Anyway, I'll PM you with a few ideas I've had.

Well, regarding the trade-lanes, the way it works is making ships fly faster within the lane tunnel (obviously).
One way to explain it in kinda-sensible fashion is:
Every lane segment envelops any mass passing through in some sort of dark-energy field, effectively reducing it's mass and therefore increasing it's speed (conservation of energy law, if mass decreases, speed must increase to compensate). The field dissipates from the ship on it's own and lasts just long enough for the ship to reach another segment to refresh the field application.

This easily explains why disrupting lanes basically stops all traffic (the field isn't refreshed once you reach disrupted segment) and the ability to exit the field at will (turn the engines off, your *real* speed slowly reaches 0, which effectively reduces your *warped* speed to impulse-like, while the sudden deceleration "shrugs" the field off you.

Yes, it's somehow similar to Mass Effect propulsion, sorry, can't think of anything better due to replaying the first part.

About the gates, I'll try to think of something tomorrow, also since lanes increase speed, while gates create an artificial jumphole, which basically teleports you to the destination, skipping everything in between, I have no idea what lane/gate parts have in common, probably they're power distribution electronics, or dark energy emitters (which just get used in different fashion to get different results)

How a dark-energy field will make a body to loss from its mass? Dark energy is a theory about anti-gravitational force that makes the universe constantly expand, until the universe gets to a stage that the force the dark energy applies will be smaller than the one the dark matter applies and the universe will collapse into itself due to the gravitational force.

I would rather think of it as generated by a magnetic acceleration field.

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[SnakThree]

Trade lanes are used for superluminal travel within a system. Trade lanes must be entered from their origin point, usually located near key industrial, military or civilian bases or jump gates leading to other systems. The equivalent top speed when traveling through a trade lane (measured by an outsider) is around 2000 m/sec, but your ship itself is moving much slower. This is because the trade lanes work by bending space itself between the rings to make the distance shorter, and explains why a single ring cannot accelerate you - high speed travel is only possible between existing pairs of rings.

So no to which part, Echo?

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[Coin]

i had always thought that the lanes were mag-lev systems, and the 'docking' was sending a command from the ship to the lane ring detailing the mass of the ship, so that the right amount of 'magnetism' could be generated, propelling the ship forwards with enough velocity to reach the next ring.

if so, we could divide 'gate/lane parts' into magnets, superconductors, neon (for cooling), basic alloy (for cooling fins), ship hull panels (casing), software (non-counterfeit), a powerplant, small ship turrets (defense), and a tlagsnet module.

we don't really need a massive breakdown of real physics for the lanes/gates, as this is a spaceboat game. we can use the commodities we have, and make a few (magnets, software, tlagsnet module) to complete the manufacturing process.

perhaps we could do the same commodity-expansion pack for other groups? PFI and OSC spring to mind.

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[Mao]

[font=Franklin Gothic Medium]Mass Relays or [font=System]Railguns

?

I'd say both!

I always imagined the trade lane system in Freelancer as a huge railgun OR a mass driver but the jump gate system is a bit more complicated. Actually, I didn't think people can create worm holes (or jump holes). Instead I was thinking that they build the gate structure around an already existent worm hole. That structure - being a mass accelerator - phases the worm hole by handling the dark matter.

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