If the Guild were to integrate capital ships, it should be at a lower 'tier' than other militaristic houses.
That is to say, the 'flagship' could well be a lost/stolen Rhineland Cruiser - but not a battleship-class vessel. I actually liked the former guild concept of a lost RH Cruiser being appropriated by the GMG - it was the Battlestar I couldn't quite get my head around...
So the top tier is an order of magnintude below full cap-using factions, but one could still pull out a 'big gun' if the situation becomes dire (and hell it does!).
Ideally, the Guild would have a larger base fielding bombers and fighters. Unless a major recruitment drive is undertaken this wont happen ( at least not quickly).
Other major problems facing the GMG when fielding small craft are based on game mechanics and rules:
1) Gas Pockets do not favour small craft - they favour the large ones.
If the 80-years war were waged according to actual FL game mechanics - the Rhineland fleet would have made their way to the nearest gas pocket and proceeded to laugh as the hapless GMG bombers self-destructed amidst the explosive gases. The wise gunboat or transport will use the terrain AGAINST the GMG, not the other way around.
Note that this is distinct from Asteroid fields that offer the reverse - hampering larger ships at the expense of smaller ones.
2) Guerrilla tactics are in violation of the server rules. One cannot simply attack the largest ship in a group, then retreat without yielding control of the system for four hours. You can take out lone craft, but cannot selectively engage within a group.
In short, I think the Guild will use a Cruiser eventually, but will do so in good faith and judiciously (hell I havent even SEEN any GMG gunboats and I know they exist).
Quote:To remove GMG's capital ship ability breaks the Guild template
I'm sorry, but ignoring RP and keeping things the same for aesthetic reasons that supposedly "balance" things is in very poor taste to me. Everyone seems to ignore my point about the Xenos. The other terrorist factions have caps, so even though the Xenos have reason not to have them (like the GMG) they should have them to fit the "template" and "balance" things, right?
And yeah, the wreck needs to be changed. If you have any doubts on the RP of it all, read Sov's post on the ID topic. If you could mod that, it would be awesome.
Quote:1) Gas Pockets do not favour small craft - they favour the large ones.
If the 80-years war were waged according to actual FL game mechanics - the Rhineland fleet would have made their way to the nearest gas pocket and proceeded to laugh as the hapless GMG bombers self-destructed amidst the explosive gases. The wise gunboat or transport will use the terrain AGAINST the GMG, not the other way around.
Friday, in RP it's the other way around. Capital ship systems are frakked by the gas pockets and horrible sensor jamming, while fighters and bombers can weave around the pockets with ease while attacking on a whim. It may not work like that in game, but in RP we can't respawn 3 seconds after we exploded either. We base gameplay off RP, not RP off gameplay.
Quote:2) Guerrilla tactics are in violation of the server rules. One cannot simply attack the largest ship in a group, then retreat without yielding control of the system for four hours. You can take out lone craft, but cannot selectively engage within a group.
Again, we don't base RP off gameplay, it's the other way around.
Quote:I think the Guild will use a Cruiser eventually
No, we won't. There are concrete reasons the Guild will never use a capital ship. Now we hear there was a half baked Easter egg thrown in. It doesn't take into account the GMG's history and RP, therefore it needs to be changed.
The RP in discovery today has come a long way since then. We are Adv. RPers playing on an Imp. server. So there are going to be a few flaws, no need to make a big topic about it, it was obviousley a misunderstanding and a minor detail that doesn't fit to todays standards. But all shal be put right in the time of reconing. The arrival of 4.85 ladies and gentlemen.
And Sidenote: Why did you change your avvy Hood? It looked good before. It may just be my fetish for noir.
This has naught been even on mind until this topic was made, Ash. You think it would have fixed itself if no one had ever questioned it?
o_0
There has been a conclusion made.
I had received the answer involving the wreck I mentioned in my first post.
I also know that GMG as a faction in general is now moving forward in their development which will include the useage of capital class ships. For 4.85 this will be a fact and the ID stands.
From the discussions from both this thread and the one in Kuraine's ID thread we also now all know that the RP is incomplete for the GMG's new status with capital class ships.
So now that I had received all the answers I needed in the two threads, I also now know that a great creative opportunity is now available for GMG.
I'll be taking up Kuraine on his offer for information, I also believe he is right in that the info regarding the wreck in the OC guard system should be a joint effort (The outcasts would be the one's to know it's final hour)
We now know there were three BS's, One is lost in Outcast space (wreck), one stays in 59 and the other "roams"
I'll be wrapping my head on this new creative opportunity for the next bit.
Thoughts and suggestions always help.
Eh, have fun Prowler. I'll just play administration duty man and ignore the development of our faction's RP if that's where it's going to go. I won't be a part of embellishing upon a half baked add in that contradicts established GMG history, and I certainly won't endorse it.
I think the 5 Guild masters need to have a vote. In the meantime, this topic is done.
Look I know how you feel and I got to say initially it took me off my feet.
As we had researched: GMG never used caps and we fully integrated ourselves into the results of a ton of research and piecing together.
When I saw that the ID wasn't changed I had thought it was admin oversight.
From the posts that followed, I too didn't see anything backing up why GMG should use caps.
Then that wreck inadvertantly got brought to my attention.
At this point in time information about this wreck was my focus.
This wreck indicated to me that there was something we missed and I needed to know more.
Yes it is an incomplete Easter Egg due to the fact that there isn't anything in GMG's ingame storyline about caps or their need for them.
The idea of GMG using caps had already been born in Discovery before we came in but it never got completed.
What got left was little tidbit of a wreck in Omi 85 that eventually got ignored and left undeveloped.
Since the ID will not be changing for at least 4.85, I've had to look at this hard.
The caps fielded by GMG will be coming even if we as a player faction choose not too.
In light of this I am looking at this hastily placed wreck (or incomplete thought) as a genuine Easter Egg.
This is very challenging, creative opportunity that none of the other faction have at the moment.
I am willing to rise up to the challenge and hopefully play a part in filling in the info of that wreck as well as RP needed to support the new ID.
This was something that was only started, we have an opportunity to finnish it.
I still believe caps are useless in the clouds, but those clouds arent in Sigma-59 nor is it in Sigma 60 (both GMG's and OC's backyard)
In such open space with no clouds the requirement of caps to oppose OC can be readily seen.
The roaming one sparks interest for me as it fits in with the idea that GMG may be parading their "trophy" for all to see. GMG is an intensely prideful group and I can actually laugh and see that kind of RP with it.
I also would like to say I'm fully confident with the group we have at GMG| I am with them often, I get a kick out of reading their chat (scanning for that one particular question), they are a tight knit group and from everything I've seen from them I believe it's possible for us to step up to this creative RP challenge.
The caps in theID was decided and personally I would rather GMG| as an official faction be the ones to step up and fulfill this RP challenge rather than an Indy or an unofficial. We have that opportunty to take or throw to someone else.
You know I can't see whats wrong with them actually having caps? I mean sure they mostly use fighters/bombers, but... they still need something like a carrier to launch those fighters from.
Why can't they own a battleship, but don't send it into combat, but instead use it as a mobile base. (And think of it, a mobile base that they can move and hide, kinda fits in the GMGs description, where they fight in a sneaky way)
I appreciate your adaption, Prowler. I'm much pickier, though.
I will not go along with a shoddily thrown in Easter egg that shouldn't be there in the first place. Yes, we could adapt to that story, but that would be throwing the RP we have already seen in place to the wind. The GMG should have never had a blurb of fluff thrown in that they flew a few stolen battleships. I simply won't endorse a mistake.
But like I said, we need to have a vote on where the GMG will go. 5 guild masters means there will be no tie.
' Wrote:But like I said, we need to have a vote on where the GMG will go. 5 guild masters means there will be no tie.
Yes I agree, GMG| as a player faction will need to vote for any kind of major change and this defenitely qualifies. We do only have 4 GMs eh, been down to 4 for sometime, not from anything bad I heard but low numbers on roster hasn't yielded a replacement, takes time to train a new leader.
Even then I wish to have this discussion. As member of of the gaming community, who has even put in work to have a stake in it, I would like to discuss the idea of getting the whole story worked out so that these Caps come out with an RP role.
Since it was admitted that there is an info gap that needs filling, basicly it's missing in the lore and infocards that alludes or hints that GMG has taken Rheinland BS for their use. I wish to discuss how we may go about filling those blanks so that when 4.85 comes out there is a background worked ahead of time that help give these caps a home in a Role Play server.
If we get a background new players who want to fly GMG caps but not in our faction, will have a storyline or descriptions of GMG's experiences with them, and be better able to RP with them
Ideas on whether they were used for offense, defense, exploration or to showboat as trophies could all be helpfull for newcomers in the next mod if they come to play a GMG cap.