Discovery Gaming Community

I normally just read stuff like this, cry, huddle up in a ball and hope for no skillgap nerfs. But this is infuriating.

nomnom Wrote:They were not stupidly OP. They were able to close the divide between good and bad pvpers, something that you have interest in dividing to make noobs suck even more.
Mines are supposed to explode with radius. that's the purpose of them.
CD reducing, like i read and you did not read, effect not just pvp, but it doesnt mean that you can reduce the number of CDs purely becasue someone is not good and you just want less CDs becasue you are so good and condem those that suck

Screamers are not your ordinary mines, screamers have better tracking than pretty much any other missile or mine in the mod. The speed at which they move in on their target is ridiculous as well. On top of that when impacting with your sheilds down it drops your core to 0, its a stupid means for bomber pilots to stroke their egos about how good they are because they can press the q button and snac a jousting target, and if the target uses its brain and doesn't joust the target is a noob.

Idiotic material made by idiots for idiots to increase their idiocy.

Nukes are fine, CDs need to have more numbers again, but screamers, along with SNACs, deserve to be buried in the ground.

Quote:Disagree. there have been recorded significant changes.

He's right, 3.03s and 8.33s are the meta right now, a well flown sabre with 5 wyrms or some other high velocity 3.03 will dumpster any other VHF.

Okay, I'll try to address your summed up points at the bottom.
This is just a personal statement, so don't take this is a dev promise or anything.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>Make missiles actually work and be a threat. Having them home in again or actually WORK would be a good start.

What? The Sidewinder is one of the most broken things currently in the mod.
Cannonball could use some more ammo, but it does work. In fact, it's a little like an easier to use MR that you mention below.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>Make guns be able to hit a lot easier. Increasing speed or something. Lets not have the flashpoints be the only gun that can hit something for noobs, ok? BTW the animation on flashies were better before adding the piss-blob animation.

No. Remember the cancerous LF guns with 800+ ms?
Agreed on the animation, but eh.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>Get mines to have a larger explosion effect maybe? Is that hard to ask for?

Screamer is the only mine that got explosion radius reduced, and that was necessary. It was basically autodeshield in any duel all the time. It's still enough to get the job done.
Nukes are a far too dominant factor in snub fights as it is, honestly. They should have gotten an ammo nerf when CDs did.
Rippers and Swatters could use some more damage.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>For the love of god, man... what did CDs and CMs do to you that you need to nerf them. For crying out loud.

I kind of agree it was too much.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>Make that brrt gun actually easier to hit something.

Brrrt gun is really underrated, honestly. You can kind of think of it as two extra guns with Flashpoint speed. Yes the arc is pretty small, but that's fine if you're jousting or chasing a running target. It's just that the Sidewinder is so broken that nobody bothers.

As for the price, 1mil for a reload isn't honestly that much. Those 2000 rounds also last longer than one might expect.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>Bring Torpedoes back and stop the hate for them.

Not with aux slots. Torpedoes worked fine when you had to sacrifice the CD, but they were never balanced to be on every single ship.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>Be able to mount more than one missile.

Superheavy fighters already can.
But the only reason VHFs worked back when missiles took gunslots is because the missiles back then were crap. It would be outrageously broken to mount more than one with the current missiles.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>Make the MR easier to hit and with better arcs if you REALLLLLY need to have a more gun-based pvp system.

Uh....no. Frankly, the MR isn't balanced to be on every ship together with a CD either. It's far too dominant in duels among the "no missuls" croud as it is.

(09-11-2017, 03:51 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]>Take a look at snubs seperatly and their effectiveness. Stop taking time to change things that are already good and fix things that are useless. The Wasapu/Jackdaw? ship... you killed it. The crow/___ ship.... you killed it. The Spatial... you killed it. The OSC SHF... you killed it.
Basically anything you touch you ruin that you dont care about, so how about giving the responsibility of fixing these things to people that ACTUALLY care about it and don't have a stupid bias towards them.

The Wasupu probably needs a remodel, and then stat adjustments to suit that.
The Jackdaw and in fact all the "4 gunner extra CD" Heavy Fighters need some sort of overhaul. They honestly didn't work well even before the aux slots were added, and now the concept is just obsolete entirely. That's kind of part of a wider problem though.

The Crow, I personally loved and I really want to make a new one. I can think of a great candidate too, the awful Sunrider. It's big like the Moldy Crow, even has a fairly similar shape. I think it'd be great with Moldy Crow-ish stats.

The Spatial, again, probably needs a remodel. And again, SHFs in general need work to make them more viable.

The OSC SHF, not sure what the problem is supposed to be? It's easily the best SHF. The possibility to mount double MR or double Maxim, both of which are awesome, eight forward guns, decent speed, not too fat....it's really quite a capable ship.

Also, don't be so dramatic. "You killed it, you ruined everything" isn't really helping get your point across.

(09-11-2017, 05:41 PM)Omicron Wrote: [ -> ]4.00's should be buffed in efficiency over 2.00's and 8.33's alike

I had to pick this out because I actually agree totally. When Haste was developing the efficiency formula, I recommended putting the efficiency high point between 3.03 and 4.00, and dropping off at both sides, rather than simply increasing as refire goes down.
Of course that requires a rather more complicated formula, but it's doable.

(09-11-2017, 06:49 PM)Wesker Wrote: [ -> ]Screamers are not your ordinary mines, screamers have better tracking than pretty much any other missile or mine in the mod. The speed at which they move in on their target is ridiculous as well. On top of that when impacting with your sheilds down it drops your core to 0, its a stupid means for bomber pilots to stroke their egos about how good they are because they can press the q button and snac a jousting target, and if the target uses its brain and doesn't joust the target is a noob.

...

Nukes are fine, CDs need to have more numbers again, but screamers, along with SNACs, deserve to be buried in the ground.

You are saying rippers are not better tracking than screamers?
Ummm....

In any case, while in words it might sounds good, it just doesnt work how you describe it. It's hard to hit with mines. Harder than before. It doesnt matter if a screamer can move a bit faster if you can just thrust away from it.

In terms of the Snac.... yeah, no. So basically you are threatened with snacs and screamers that are still skill based and you want them removed becasue you dont like their effects?
U might as well remove MRs too with that kind of logic. Also the sheild-variant of MRs.

The game should not only be about guns. There should be more different ways of effectively getting a kill.

(yeah i know i said i would not post but i need to get this out there. Ill stop now)

(09-11-2017, 05:24 PM)Foxglove Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-11-2017, 05:23 PM)Corile Wrote: [ -> ]TL;DR of the above: Revert all changes Haste did since November last year.

^ This. Everything was fine before. Don't try to fix it if it's not broken.

Problem is, there are a lot of actually broken things that do need a fix. Such as Saishi or Odin.

Completely agree with Nomnom, but I also have some ideas here:

1.Missiles need their 70 ammo and 400m/s speed back that they had back when they were first introduced a rework. (Also pls bring back torpedoes too!)
2.Guns should be buffed to 1000-1400m/s (depending on refire rate) so they don't become subpar to missile, but also allow a different play style (fast refire vs slow refire).
3.Personally I believe a nuclear mine should have bigger blast radius as well as the screamer, maybe 75m for both, or actually 90 for Screamer since it's EMP. Meanwhile Ripper can get current blast radius of nuclear mine but have bigger damage than the nuke so pvpwhores don't complain that there are no skill weapons.
4.Maxim should be mountable on gun slots so it doesn't take away auxiliary slot.
5.Give Aux slots to other snub classes.

I believe the changes above will also solve other issues of the community such as shield running, blue denials and whatnot. The end goal would be everyone having more fun and being less bitter about losing.

P.S. I'm still not playing, I just wanted to share my experience as a 9 year veteran of Discovery 'cause a friend commented to me about this thread so I can't promise I'll be here to answer replies.

Quote:You are saying rippers are not better tracking than screamers?
Ummm....

Both mines have the same seeking distance, acceleration, the only difference is that the screamer does more damage and has a larger detonation radius LOL.

Quote:In any case, while in words it might sounds good, it just doesnt work how you describe it. It's hard to hit with mines. Harder than before. It doesnt matter if a screamer can move a bit faster if you can just thrust away from it.

You're joking right? Hard to hit screamers? You're ACTUALLY serious?

Quote:In terms of the Snac.... yeah, no. So basically you are threatened with snacs and screamers that are still skill based and you want them removed becasue you dont like their effects?
U might as well remove MRs too with that kind of logic. Also the sheild-variant of MRs.

The game should not only be about guns. There should be more different ways of effectively getting a kill.

(yeah i know i said i would not post but i need to get this out there. Ill stop now)

Bombers shouldn't be anti fighter material, fighters should be anti fighter material. Snacs are easier to use than MRs, and bombers have less of a skillgap since the only thing you need to be good in a bomber is low ping high FPS and average depth perception.

I don't know what world you live in, how you pvp, or if you pvp at all really. But in discovery, this server, nukes and Cds are the most effective ways to kill someone, not MRing, not gunning them down. Nukes are used by everyone, pros and noobs for a reason, you don't see your less than average pvp clown using codename 3.03s and winning. With a vet, you might though.

(09-11-2017, 07:18 PM)Backo Wrote: [ -> ]Completely agree with Nomnom, but I also have some ideas here:

1.Missiles need their 70 ammo and 400m/s speed back that they had back when they were first introduced a rework. (Also pls bring back torpedoes too!)
2.Guns should be buffed to 1000-1400m/s (depending on refire rate) so they don't become subpar to missile, but also allow a different play style (fast refire vs slow refire).
3.Personally I believe a nuclear mine should have bigger blast radius as well as the screamer, maybe 75m for both, or actually 90 for Screamer since it's EMP. Meanwhile Ripper can get current blast radius of nuclear mine but have bigger damage than the nuke so pvpwhores don't complain that there are no skill weapons.
4.Maxim should be mountable on gun slots so it doesn't take away auxiliary slot.
5.Give Aux slots to other snub classes.

I believe the changes above will also solve other issues of the community such as shield running, blue denials and whatnot. The end goal would be everyone having more fun and being less bitter about losing.

P.S. I'm still not playing, I just wanted to share my experience as a 9 year veteran of Discovery 'cause a friend commented to me about this thread so I can't promise I'll be here to answer replies.

I had a good laugh here, well played valdez.

>broken
>Saishi

???????
saishi would be balanced if the 8.33 guns werent trash now

Don't have the time to answer to every single aspect, but I have to say that I agree with the general notion that pvp (especially in snubs) is very hard to get into, and it is also true that a small group of players who mastered it seem to enviously guard their territory against everybody who tries to "invade it" by "undeserved" means. I can even understand that - and it is no problem in a bustling game with X-thousand players.

But having the snub pvp aspect practically impossible to get into is not good for Disco. Believe me, I have been leading a newbie faction for years and I have always tried to motivate players to also go for pvp as a part of the game, but I would say up to 80 % of players flat-out told me after trying: I am useless. I'll stick to trading.

And THAT is not good for the game.

The pvp part has to be accessible for everybody.
That also means that you SOMETIMES have to be able to be successful, to find motivation.
Currently (excluding broken Sidewinders that will be nerfed into 7th hell anyway), there is very little incentive to even start pvping in snubs. You will not make it. You will never win. You will be a cheap blue, and you will be even punished for trying now with the stupid 2h-death-rules that even counts when the killers log off.

So, rambling rambling... part of Disco losing people is that the snub pvp part is way too inaccessible to be attractive.
I am not good enough to say how it can be achieved, but some of nomnom's ideas sound logical to me.

(09-11-2017, 06:38 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: [ -> ]They were not stupidly OP. They were able to close the divide between good and bad pvpers, something that you have interest in dividing to make noobs suck even more.
Mines are supposed to explode with radius. that's the purpose of them.
CD reducing, like i read and you did not read, effect not just pvp, but it doesnt mean that you can reduce the number of CDs purely becasue someone is not good and you just want less CDs becasue you are so good and condem those that suck

no they weren't closing any gap, they were abused by bombers who exclusively shieldran in circles and tried to pop a snac whenever someone lost his shield. stop being a massive retard, "you have interest in dividing to make noobs suck". implying you are one, killing you and killing a NPC makes no difference, i take no pleasure in it nor does anyone else. your whole conspiracy about how "pvpwhores" like the game easy for them and hard for everyone else is disgusting. if i had interest in making everyone suck i wouldn't have writen all the snub pvp guides in the forums nor would i have over 100 pvp videos uploaded in youtube (regardless of the shit quality they may or may not be).

Quote:wrong. Missiles can be good if correctly made. Again, stop smudging the truth that there can only be 1 elite weapon and then that means everything else sucks.

that's what you're doing with guns though. you're also saying we need to fix what's broken, but sidewinder is in your advantage so you don't have that in your priorities. oh boi double standards.

Quote:The moment when a pvp-whore is threatened, they whine that it was overpowered because their god-mode was terminated.
Hey have you heard of CDs and CMs? Oh wait... you want to REMOVE THE NUMBER of them.

i never said i wanted a lower number on them. if they were removed all together i'm sure you'd whine and i wouldn't. i in fact have not made a single post about the issue, much less a thread. the general complaint about sidewinders is that they are too fast to make CMs a factor, nothing else.

you do seem to feel very threatened by guns by the way.

Quote:Disagree. there have been recorded significant changes.

to efficiency, in particular their energy consumption. you can't fire for 15 seconds nonstop anymore, whoops.

Quote:It actually is noob friendly and there are countless games that take precedent , especially those that are about skill.
Chivalry for example has tons of small tricks a noob can do, but even though that is the case, you still have a large large curve to learn. Even so, the small noob-tube tricks help noobs not feel overwealmed. This is a large problem with disco pvp and YOU KNOW IT.

no, i don't. i stopped knowing 5 years ago when i thought about what i was doing and someone taught me there is a thing called engine kill and another one called strafe.

the problem isn't the learning curve. look at cs:go, the premise is shoot to kill. same here. only that there there are leagues and rankings that split the playerbase depending on their perfomance. otherwise it's the exact same deal.

Quote:Not talking about insta-hit. Im talking easier.

you do a good job making people think otherwise. besides, buffing the speed of things doesn't mean it's easier to hit with them because a subsequent increase in speed is required for the ships. otherwise you remove dodging from the game entirely and make everything be about numbers and aim, in that order. If you buff the speed of every single gun by 50ms you'll notice the difference for a few days and then everything will be the same, and a more radical change will remove the core aspect of freelancer pvp.

Quote:Yeah it is. And it's not mine spam AND it is a valid noob tactic. This is your vet bias creeping in that you are whining about mine spam.

i never said it's not a valid tactic, im saying it should have a penalty. and yes, throwing 2 or 3 mines per turn is spam. my vet bias tells me you have not won a single fight by your own outplays but rather by the opponent's missplays. otherwise you'd know mine spam does nothing to XTF average players.

Quote:Again, you whine about spamming. Maybe spamming is a way for new players to deal with you guys at times.

im not whining, you are. and no, it's not. it only makes you die faster.

Quote:Even if that is the case, no one ever used it for anti-cap ever with effectivity

because no one has bothered to, but it melts gunboats, which is being nerfed soon as far as i remember. bear in mind i only talk with some devs.

Quote:No missiles are used.

?

hello

¿

Quote:Are you blind? I have done MR since i started the game and i see significant differences.

lel you obviously don't know how to use it, the only thing that geniuly changed since its release is that it's not a 1shot deshield anymore

sure give it better arcs, it won't change anything xd

Quote:disagree. Maybe it's because you didnt know how to deal with it becasue it was more noob friendly. Actually helped close in the seperation between noob and vet.

make up your mind as to whether im a "pro pvper" or a Xxxn00bscrubxxX. you want guns to hit more easily but you're ok with a ship that is extremely hard to hit unless you can exploit it's large sides above and below? that doesn't exactly help newbies that fight against it you know. also, i did my fair share of wasupu flying, just like i've used any other ship in the game below gunboats meant for pvp.

you insist on making your own experience look as the experience of every new player and it's becoming annoying

Quote:I never said guns should be secondary. This is you putting words into my mouth to back up your OWN bias which is clear as day to see

"don't you assume my gender i'm calling the police you r***** **** **** **** ***************************"

you complain guns are too powerful and too hard to use and you want missiles like the sidewinder which in your opinion work as intended, this missile being completely prevalent over guns in teamfights

yes if you can do basic additions and substractions you can safely say you want missiles to be prevalent over guns, which there is nothing wrong with as it's just your own opinion

Quote:I never said guns > missiles. That is what YOU said. I never said guns should be 2ndary. that is what YOU said. There are differnt ways that pvp used to be played but the pvp whores started the direction that guns are Pro and everything else is unfair and overpowered.

did you consider the fact that maybe that was intentional so that the skill gap could be countered with easier to use weapons so that noobs can stand a chance?

mememe

pvp whores didn't start anything. "its all ur fault omggggggggggggggggg" argument won't get you far into this

what was intentional, the sidewinder being impossible to CM? the problem with sidewinders lay in the fact that CMs don't work against them because they move too fast LOL what are you on about

never, not even one single time did i complain about missiles before several patches being overpowered, because they weren't. different changes were made over time and some addapted and some didn't. you can like them or not, but rest assured not me nor anyone of my kind made threads whining and begging for those changes

Quote:And Disco's playerbase is a result of devs killing off other server ease of accessibility, the disco being a roleplay server, an other things.
the fact is that people are drawn to roleplay here. Not pvp. Pvp anger is what drives people away and turns noobs into silent traders b/c they are angry that they cannot compete.
When they group up, vets will just call it ganking too.

how is disco being about RP a factor in the low playerbase. in fact it's probably what has kept the game alive seeing mods like FLU and HHC.

if you get angry because you lost in pvp after you came here to roleplay i think you had hidden, interior motives you need to deal with yourself LOL because that's obviously not a problem for someone who came here lured by roleplay.

you are using the term gank for anything you don't like. again using myself as example, since you consider me the ultimate enemy of fun and enjoyment: i've gladly called arbi to log his LN players to fight me 1v4, not that long ago. outside conn of course. and i lost misserably.

if someone complains that they got 3v1'd after asking for a 3v1 or being met by bad players who still managed to kill him then he can either get good or get out of the server because that's as sad as it gets. a gank is the occurance of a player who would already lose in a "fair" fight (say, 1v1 against a "better"player") getting piled by more people removing the already very low chance of victory he had in a "fair" scenario.


in general you're trying to imply this huge conspiracy where "pvpwhores" hate everyone and want the game to be as hard as it can get for everyone so they have an easier time, and you could not be more wrong about it. you pose as a victim trying to defend a defenseless majority from an oppresive, mean minority that wants everything to be shit for everyone else, but in reality you're just mad the game doesn't play like you want it to.