Discovery Gaming Community

(01-12-2018, 07:54 PM)Freeroamer Wrote: [ -> ]I would be willing to help with the art side of things.

I'd love to see some examples of your work, if you have any.

Unlucky, debating with you is pointless since I lack skype logs. How can I be reasonably expected to hold a dialogue with you over things which transpired years ago? All I know is that somebody - if not you, probably Shooter - showed me multiple WIP screenshots and/or p3d uploads of the Deimos, to which I provided input several times.

(01-12-2018, 08:21 PM)Durandal Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2018, 07:54 PM)Freeroamer Wrote: [ -> ]I would be willing to help with the art side of things.

I'd love to see some examples of your work, if you have any.

Unlucky, debating with you is pointless since I lack skype logs. How can I be reasonably expected to hold a dialogue with you over things which transpired years ago? All I know is that somebody - if not you, probably Shooter - showed me multiple WIP screenshots and/or p3d uploads of the Deimos, to which I provided input several times.

Hold a dialogue? Hmm lets see... and how does on hold a dialog when one keeps ignoring? You kept ignoring me and you say then you start telling stuff about me in your dev streams ? Very very Astute of you ..

oh boi this thread

Durandal has flaws and is lazy at times, I worked with the dude for more than five years now so I kinda know a fair bit on that matter. However, perhaps it'd be a good thing if people started listening at least a minimum to someone that actually knows what he's doing.

Making a ship model isn't the hardest part. Anyone can do it. The actual boring, time consuming and hard part is creating a model that works and is playable.
Here's a chart that apply to what would be deemed a good submission (proper modelling, proper uving):


Now lets consider doing all of this properly takes a single week for a single developer:


Perhaps the above chart will be a crazy revelation for some of you, but guess what: make everyone a service and stop being lazy. Everyone that used to submit ships years ago fully understood they were expected to deal with the entire process and learned it. These people (Jinx, Luis, Gurjiv, Swallow, Dii and many others) DID know how long it is to go through the entire process and were competent enough to understand dumping 75% of the process on the shoulders of two/three people at best is insane when there's already other projects in the pipeline.

It is, simply put, unfeasible. All you'll achieve is demotivate people and get them to leave the development team which, surprise, cause things to take even more time to be implemented. The ONLY thing the developers should have to take care of is balance adjustments and even then if you're open about your development with the community, they will regularly provide feedback on the submission and work with you to make this submission as perfect as possible.

So yeah, it's easy to complain that nothing is happening, that Durandal, Eigos are terrible people just keeping the position for benefits. I'm not going to say there aren't bad developers, there has been, but for a moment it's maybe time to consider you might be part of the problem as well.

(01-12-2018, 09:23 PM)Alley Wrote: [ -> ]The ONLY thing the developers should have to take care of is balance adjustments and even then if you're open about your development with the community, they will regularly provide feedback on the submission and work with you to make this submission as perfect as possible.

I fail to see how they have been doing this. They complain they do not have enough people and yet they have not worked nor given any help what so ever to make somebody's submission up to standards.

instead What we got when Dave showcased his work is this.

(01-11-2018, 11:18 PM)Durandal Wrote: [ -> ]The reason it went nowhere is because you've got a veritable ass load of content here that you're unwilling to texture, hardpoint, or hitbox. Models are certainly nice, but you can't expect to dump that kind of a workload on anybody in the FL community because you don't feel like it. To say you did the "time consuming part of creating the models" is frankly an insult to people such as , , and myself who undertake the miserable task of doing the dirty work that nobody else wants to touch. The actual creative process is much easier because it is fun to do. The rest is the work, and to say it any other way is a blatant lie.

I actually enjoy texturing, but why should I be asked to texture somebody else's stuff?
Hardpointing? Hitboxing? Setting up ini entries for new base components? Nobody enjoys that stuff. There's no enjoyment to take from it, except for finally seeing the finished product in game. And that's a hell of a lot less enjoyable when it isn't even your work.

Overall, I strongly doubt you'll ever see these used unless you take the time to finish them yourself, or until a new engine comes out (along with a better system/tools for linking equipment and handling collision detection) to use them on.

You be the Judge.

Honestly, I can see the problem of not having sufficient motivation for implementing a model into the game simply fixed with a bit of cash. Real cash. These Developers are voluntarily contributing to expand this mod.

Unlucky's made multiple Megalodons (you should see his newest one) and they're all gorgeous. Yet they're denied for minor problems that although a seasoned modeler can pick up, the vast majority of players here would never notice. I'll say that I did have to spend some time fixing hardpoints in one CMP I received, but after that, it was pretty much good to go. Minor texturing issues are negligible and generally, are only noticed if clearly pointed out. I suppose maybe the severity of this scales up with ship size, and I can see it being worse on smaller ships.

I don't even think these kinds of issues are anywhere near as bad as the countless ships that currently shoot through themselves because that's the best we can do with turret hardpoints in FL's limited engine.

To be honest, I think I'd rather have brand new models for the recently 'added' Core ships with slight textures issues, rather than them just being clones of the BHG line. IMO I think recycled content is worse.

Small texturing issues can just be fixed at a later date if it ever becomes important enough to warrant that.

I see I have been mentioned quite some times here.
So let me put my two cents in:
Take the job of exporting/hardpointing/hitboxing off the modelers shoulders.
You will remove an extra demotivation factor from them and this will allow for one skilled person to supervise and be responsible for game-ready files. It is a tedious work, but it is much less than modelling.
Demand too much and no one will be willing to do stuff. Well, not me, at least, not anymore.

I say take those models that are approved by players and are better than placeholders, give them to a dev and let them export.

If you say it is too much work for devs, then I say it is too much work for modellers, and thereby I excuse myself and be gee-tee-ef-ou.