Discovery Gaming Community

(02-23-2018, 01:32 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]This change will not create any restrictions beyond what players can, and should be doing, normally. I don't know where the notion that this change utterly neuters newbies comes from. And newbies aren't idiots. I've rarely seen sanctions were Core or Order caps have been sanctioned for breaching their Cap ZoI restriction ID lines. It doesn't prevent them from leaving their ZoI and roleplay with others, provided they aren't flying a Cap. It can lead to the creation of a small perk that can actually give Official IDs a slight edge over their indie counterparts.

Official factions don't need any more perks built into the mod. This is what i mean by entitlement. All official factions are are a collection of players who've decided to band together and play as a team. On top of that they can add to that factions' role play by writing lore and contributing to the factions development as the discovery timeline progresses.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that newbies are stupid, merely inexperienced. You were afforded the tolerance that i've come to expect from the discovery community when you started out; we all were. While we may not care to admit, we've all made mistakes and crossed lines that may have been seen as controversial by some. Most likely because we didn't know any better, but also perhaps because we wanted to be adventurous.

(02-23-2018, 01:32 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2018, 11:00 PM)Ash Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, i don't know why this is stirring such a fuss. Knowing what a hornet's nest the Omicrons can be especially with the zealous reputation of some of our players, taking a random cap there is practically begging for a ganking.

Although it happens everywhere, come to the Omicrons and spend some time in my shoes. You'll understand how it makes the Omicrons almost conn-tier.

I suggest you practice what you preach and put yourself in the shoes of a brand new player.

Welcome to Discovery
Look at all these ships
Look at all these places to explore
Look at all the add ons
All the factions
Graphics
Players
Challenges
Player Owned Based?
Wow!

Oh, look at all the rules
What's the deal with ID's?
Look at all the lore i'm expected to read up on
Look at all the inRP laws
Official factions?
Zones of interest?
What's a tech chart?
Politics
Current affairs

Nom-conformity with any one of these latter factors creates an environment that is unwelcoming to a player. You can categorise elements of this mod to infinity to get everyone to fall in line, but the end result is a miserable monotony deprived of deviance and the universe becomes mundane and predictable. This is a spaceship shooting game first and foremost, you cannot organise it's players like books in a library.

(02-23-2018, 04:28 AM)pat Wrote: [ -> ]Edit: A quick note to add, if you dont let a noobie explore things for himself, he'll never learn, If you give him a bad experience in one of the most populated places on the server, Hes probably just going to leave and never come back to said location or the mod itself. Its like sticking your finger in the door, you dont know how painful it is until you try it. Or like eating something for the first time, you never know it until you try it.

To also note, the reason you will find many new players in random locations that have absolutely nothing to do with their ID, could be for many reasons. There might be very low activity in their ZoI, or perhaps their just not enjoying the place their in with their vessel. I mean sure, you get the baiter a lot, but honestly those aren't a problem. Blow em up and go do something else, because they will too. If you want to seriously deal with this problem, if its a baiter, blow it up. If its a newbie, you sit down with them and tell them your prospective on server RP and then ask them theirs and what they have intentions for. Blowing them up then ranting about it just doesn't cut it, this is a roleplay server on a space game, expect what you typically wouldnt, nothing is perfect. And just blowing up clueless players because your zealous about your gameplay style isnt how a COMMUNITY should act.

I agree with everything pat has said except the last part which kind of contradicts the rest of his point. Players wanna play, not pour over miles of content to educate themselves about the complexities of the mod. No amount of signposting is going to change that. I say let them learn by trial and error, and if need be, by the hard way. God knows players have the means to facilitate that.

Rely on our players and rely on yourself to handle this issue. You don't need yet more red tape to do it for you. And if the issue becomes so intolerable that your stomping grounds aren't fun for you any more then do something else. I hear the unioners are hiring.

Indies on capital ships not being able to take them outside of their ZOI is going to kill server activity? I disagree. In fact it doesnt even make any sense.

If that certain area was so crucial to an ID's activity to the point that they so desperately needed to fly there, especially in capital ships, that system or area would be already included in that ID.

If it's not included in the ID, it means that it's not needed on your ZOI to generate activity for your faction and that you do NOT have much of any good reason to be there.

Capital ships usually have a purpose. Generally they're classified as WARSHIPS. Meaning they're used to wage war. They are a platform with big guns, shields and thick hulls designed specifically to bring death and destruction upon the enemy. And I have to say they are not ships to go out for a stroll and to hang out and have tea with your buddies around a freeport in "unknown" space or someone else's space.

So, go to war, fly those warships to the front and shoot something with it instead. Just as it's purpose indicates. You're going to be generating much more activity that way. Especially for newbies too. Trust me.

(02-23-2018, 12:12 PM)Ash Wrote: [ -> ]This is a spaceship shooting game first and foremost, you cannot organise it's players like books in a library.

(02-23-2018, 01:32 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]... to instruct players that what they're doing is wrong...

(02-23-2018, 01:15 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: [ -> ]... wouldn't affect "newbies", just those who can't, or rather, don't want to learn and play by the current written and unwritten set of consensual community rules and guidelines.

But isn't that exactly the problem here?

What they're doing ISN'T wrong according to rules, or according to what most people think about "unwritten rules".

It's only wrong in your personal opinions, which dare I say are biased towards anything that would get people to join or "obey" the factions you lead.

Tbh, i agreed with Lyth - some ships seems ridicolous in improper places. Its why i was against just going to omicrons on SCEC without pre-RP. Delta rp sometimes seems...silly, so i just not fly in delta without any pre-RP for coalition now. But..i think we need find another ways to solve this.

Lock caps to zoi will made some RP very unflexible. As new player i can say how i see that. We wanna some rp, actions. But just look - many of this old oficial factions dead. They all dead. InRP laws dead, and many of thing outdated. Also they can mostly been in another time zone or something.

just for example. We need cruiser to solve some incident on border. But official faction dead, or busy, and indie cannot reach this due restrictments. Or we just need ship anything through Omicrons, Omegas,Taus or warzones. We need cruiser at least for it. I just want say, for coalition we many time just bring indie for escort purposes. It enchance their rp, help them participate in something bigger. And i think another factions can have their own examples of use indie caps outside zoi with full rp.

I just think, we cannot do more restrictments on indie caps, untill many peoples awaiting for months answers from completely dead official factions.

(02-23-2018, 01:28 PM)Karlotta Wrote: [ -> ]But isn't that exactly the problem here?

What they're doing ISN'T wrong according to rules, or according to what most people think about "unwritten rules".

It's only wrong in your personal opinions, which dare I say are biased towards anything that would get people to join or "obey" the factions you lead.

ZoI exists as a pointer to direct players where they should be playing. It's generally frowned upon for players to be taking capital ships where they shouldn't (but oddly, people don't want this unwritten rule to have written representation?). If our personal opinions were wrong, ZoI wouldn't exist,

And lol, this isn't a ploy to get people to join or obey our factions. We're not looking for validation.

(02-23-2018, 02:15 PM)Anton Okunev Wrote: [ -> ]Tbh, i agreed with Lyth - some ships seems ridicolous in improper places. Its why i was against just going to omicrons on SCEC without pre-RP. Delta rp sometimes seems...silly, so i just not fly in delta without any pre-RP for coalition now. But..i think we need find another ways to solve this.

The Coalition ID has no ZoI. This change wouldn't affect it.

(02-23-2018, 02:15 PM)Anton Okunev Wrote: [ -> ]Lock caps to zoi will made some RP very unflexible. As new player i can say how i see that. We wanna some rp, actions. But just look - many of this old oficial factions dead. They all dead. InRP laws dead, and many of thing outdated. Also they can mostly been in another time zone or something.

just for example. We need cruiser to solve some incident on border. But official faction dead, or busy, and indie cannot reach this due restrictments. Or we just need ship anything through Omicrons, Omegas,Taus or warzones. We need cruiser at least for it. I just want say, for coalition we many time just bring indie for escort purposes. It enchance their rp, help them participate in something bigger. And i think another factions can have their own examples of use indie caps outside zoi with full rp.

I just think, we cannot do more restrictments on indie caps, untill many peoples awaiting for months answers from completely dead official factions.

But you have those border systems in your ZoI already. This change would not stop you from doing what you describe in your example. A KNF indie can still bring their cap to Tau-29 to defend the border, but won't be able to bring it to Baffin, which isn't in their ZoI anyway. Why would the KNF send a Capital to Baffin anyway?

People are completely misinterpreting this suggestion. It doesn't restrict what you can do already within your ID. Ok, you can't bring your Redemption to Omicron Delta to meme around, but if your RP is so important, what stops you doing that in a fighter, bomber, gunboat or transport instead?

(02-23-2018, 12:17 PM)Arbs Wrote: [ -> ]Indies on capital ships not being able to take them outside of their ZOI is going to kill server activity? I disagree. In fact it doesnt even make any sense.

If that certain area was so crucial to an ID's activity to the point that they so desperately needed to fly there, especially in capital ships, that system or area would be already included in that ID.

If it's not included in the ID, it means that it's not needed on your ZOI to generate activity for your faction and that you do NOT have much of any good reason to be there.

Capital ships usually have a purpose. Generally they're classified as WARSHIPS. Meaning they're used to wage war. They are a platform with big guns, shields and thick hulls designed specifically to bring death and destruction upon the enemy. And I have to say they are not ships to go out for a stroll and to hang out and have tea with your buddies around a freeport in "unknown" space or someone else's space.

So, go to war, fly those warships to the front and shoot something with it instead. Just as it's purpose indicates. You're going to be generating much more activity that way. Especially for newbies too. Trust me.

ok, let's do it to official faction IDs too

(02-23-2018, 08:40 PM)Alex. Wrote: [ -> ]ok, let's do it to official faction IDs too

As stated, The Core and Order IDs are examples of indies having restrictions and the official ID having allowances. And they work just fine. Official IDs have shown that, combined with existing responsibilities, they can take their caps out of their ZoI sensibly.

(02-23-2018, 08:40 PM)Alex. Wrote: [ -> ]ok, let's do it to official faction IDs too

From the military IDs:
The X Military are the military of X House. They maintain X House rule in systems claimed by X House and assist in law enforcement. They also patrol the systems bordering X House.

If I'm using my capitals for something other than that, I'm probably doing it wrong. So by all means, feel free.

I note that the Core independent ID cannot take caps outside its zone of influence but the official Core ID can. Seems this proposal would have limiting effects on certain factions while having no effects on others.

Caps outside their zone of influence can be very silly. Snubs outside their zone of influence can also be very silly. Both can also potentially be roleplayed very well. This is not an issue with server rules or IDs, this is down to the players here. As with many other ideas over the last few years, this may or may not have merit but considering the stage of life this game and server are in, unfortunately implementing further gameplay restrictions may not be particularly beneficial overall.