Discovery Gaming Community

bdm with a mining bonus ?? wtf thats just silly ..

"anywhere" should be used to define allowance outside ZOI. One word to prevent confusions is a small price to pay.

If I may make a small prediction regarding this change: Core will likely roll over and accept these factions mining azurite to prevent diplomatic repreccussions of their house backing or at most charge them a visa. Order will be unable to demand the azurite (already confirmed by staff some time ago that its current ID does not allow it to do so) and will, at most, end up defending them from the occasional nomads. Meanwhile Zoners are Zoners and won't initiate any combat with non Nomads of course. In Delta that leaves what? Nomads who are hostile to everyone anyway and will now get more enemies ganking them?

And while yes, Corsairs and Outcasts do occasionally fly in Delta that is a rare occurance at best as both sides have their own 'frontlines' to worry about.

I get the idea and concept of this change, but it feels like the current situation and the effects this change would realistically have on that situation was not studied thoroughly before the change was made.

A potential alternative could have been placing an outcast outpost in the system to harvest azurite for themselves. While they and Core have been rping friendly, outcast ID still prevents them from allying with lawfuls to my knowledge. This development would likely put strain on the Core/Outcast relationship while also likely bringing Corsairs to Delta as their arch enemies are now close to their backyard. Meanwhile Corsairs being in Delta might cause the Core to tolerate Outcasts harvesting Azurite since they're noting an increase in threats.

All in all I believe that the alternative would have resulted in more conflict than the current implementation which has left several people confused, especially regarding the mining bonus.


EDIT: Looking at the actual ID's themselves now I see that Kempeitai have ZOI in Orkney, which I believe either got renamed or no longer exists as I cannot find it on the online navmap, a friend of mine says it's now Brittany? Also I noticed that out of all the ID's the LSF is the only one without an extended ZOI. Following the pattern of 'housespace+1 and 1 distant but relevant territory' (Invernes for Bret, Omicron Xi for BDM and Orkney for Kusari) shouldn't LSF receive ZOI for Vespuchi? It follows the pattern of a relevant system (HF) that is not in direct contact with a lib system and would allow them to fight/sabotage an enemy of Liberty.

Honestly, I don't think them mining Azurite will change much. There's an oversight(?) where the Intel IDs have been given the same mining bonuses as the primary local miners which I think is unbalanced and should be fixed at least. Otherwise, the addition just adds a neat little extra thing for the IDs to do. Will it be utilized? Idk, but hey at least it's there.

Can't we return the old perk that all official intel factions got which was the removal of the cruiser line? Before the whole debacle with the LSF cruisers attacking outside their ZoI, all official intel factions could attack with cruisers+ outside their ZoI, which I think was a nice addition for them above their indie counterparts, like Order indies and Order|.
Otherwise, I really don't see what the whole point of being an official intelligence faction is when you have nothing over your indie counterparts. In fact, the BIS indie and official ID are exactly the same, as well as the LSF indie and official IDs, barring some unusual grammar choices.

Standardizing is nice, but the clause that allowed officials to use cruisers freely outside their ZoI was removed almost silently, and it really should come back. Other than all of that, it's nice.

The one thing I wish was here is Intel factions being able to declare groups and individuals hostile themselves. I think it's extremely limiting that their diplomacy is controlled by Houses which are a player meta-entity and a roleplay construct, rather than the NPC faction itself.

(05-18-2020, 09:39 AM)Spectre Wrote: [ -> ]Standardizing is nice, but the clause that allowed officials to use cruisers freely outside their ZoI was removed almost silently, and it really should come back. Other than all of that, it's nice.

When was that a thing?

I only recall a recent issue where indies were missing the cruiser clause and it was being abused by a few choice schmucks in Liberty I had half a mind to FR5.

(05-17-2020, 11:57 PM)jammi Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-17-2020, 11:53 PM)Thunderer Wrote: [ -> ]The new IDs don't explicitly mention their bearers can attack hostiles outside of the ZOI.

If ZOI isn't specified, it defaults to everywhere.

This all looks good and all that, but I am most certain Imperial Rheinland will need an intelligence agency, so we would need an indie intelligence ID
That when?

EDIT: Yes, I read, its under rework, yes im stupid

(05-18-2020, 12:39 AM)nevrozac Wrote: [ -> ]Roleplay wise - none. No roleplay or events have turned towards these factions gaining mining capabilities of Azurite.
Mind you - roleplay like this was required for factions like Core and the others that have bonuses currently in order to obtain this capability, as otherwise not even them would be mining it efficiently:
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...tid=165991
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...tid=161409

I'd just like to point out that the above is incorrect. The Order and Core were not required to roleplay in order to obtain the initial mining bonus - they were the intended mining groups from when the commodity was first introduced in 2016 and received 3.0 bonuses as default. This was later upgraded for the official factions to a 4.0 bonus, presumably through a faction perk, which may have required specific RP. Hard to say without finding the approval thread.

(05-18-2020, 12:39 AM)nevrozac Wrote: [ -> ]edit: or certain people in charge of such changes are using the excuse of buffing intelligence IDs to give the faction they like certain bonuses (adapteds, zoi, id lines, mining etc). maybe its a conspiracy but who knows?

As discussed yesterday, Intel IDs have had access to adapted Nomad weapons for as long as the Core and Order have (both sellpoints and techcompat). The changes made here are intended to facilitate the beginning of new RP. Enabling possibilities is not a fait accompli statement of "these factions are already established in Delta on an equal footing with the natives". They can attempt to establish themselves in the region, and face diplomatic and roleplay repercussions as appropriate.

(05-18-2020, 12:33 AM)Charo Wrote: [ -> ]So a KPT ship can zip down to Liberty and pop off on LSF now? Adding "outside of house space" would stop people from openly abusing this

Currently yes. We'll see how that plays out. We wanted to incentivise skullduggery and counter-espionage, but if enabling that inside House space causes issues we can always adjust.

(05-18-2020, 06:13 AM)Promotheus Wrote: [ -> ]Order will be unable to demand the azurite (already confirmed by staff some time ago that its current ID does not allow it to do so) and will, at most, end up defending them from the occasional nomads.

This is a fairly stupid omission and will be fixed with tomorrow's server restart. I'm currently reviewing all of the Order IDs to standardise the wording in the same way the Intel IDs have been.

(05-18-2020, 06:13 AM)Promotheus Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: Looking at the actual ID's themselves now I see that Kempeitai have ZOI in Orkney, which I believe either got renamed or no longer exists as I cannot find it on the online navmap, a friend of mine says it's now Brittany? Also I noticed that out of all the ID's the LSF is the only one without an extended ZOI. Following the pattern of 'housespace+1 and 1 distant but relevant territory' (Invernes for Bret, Omicron Xi for BDM and Orkney for Kusari) shouldn't LSF receive ZOI for Vespuchi? It follows the pattern of a relevant system (HF) that is not in direct contact with a lib system and would allow them to fight/sabotage an enemy of Liberty.

Orkney should be renamed yes. As for the ZOI extention, the =LSF= are welcome to submit a player request / faction perk request to amend that.

(05-18-2020, 09:39 AM)Spectre Wrote: [ -> ]Standardizing is nice, but the clause that allowed officials to use cruisers freely outside their ZoI was removed almost silently, and it really should come back. Other than all of that, it's nice.

As far as I'm aware, official factions didn't have this ability once the cruiser restrictions were put in place. The indie IDs didn't have this clause for a while as an oversight, but that was recently-ish corrected.

(05-18-2020, 10:00 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]The one thing I wish was here is Intel factions being able to declare groups and individuals hostile themselves. I think it's extremely limiting that their diplomacy is controlled by Houses which are a player meta-entity and a roleplay construct, rather than the NPC faction itself.

It's something we can consider.