(11-08-2012, 04:31 PM)Prysin Wrote: [ -> ]another issue about official factions is that although they have a faction RIGHT that says they are to assist in the development and secure the continuation of their NPC factions RP, the devs themselves mostly overrule this. It is by default an unwritten rule that "official factions DOES NOT EXIST in lore".... This is why alot of good RP is being wasted, and why alot of factions just give up.
The leaders, members and indies all together may work their arses off, but in the end, it doesnt matter that much. Because it wont be considered to be part of the official game RP. This is also very confusing for indies. Because you have to adjust yourself after two separate sets of guidelines, in addition to the "rules" that comes with the territory you operate in.
Let me take a VERY good example, ill be using my own faction as an example; 101st DID make a NAP with BAF back in 2008 or perhaps earlier, i dunno, i dun care... its been around for FIVE YEARS. And aside from the OC and Bret ID saying they can cooperate, there is no ingame story, rumor or RP that suggest that there actually IS a NAP. But still the official factions would slap their respective indies for causing trouble with the other side. Now, how do you expect indies to EVER grasp the idea of what roleplay is, when there is nothing ingame that supports it, except from some posts made by a faction leader who long since left disco.
In other words, we cant expect indies to partake or even to follow official RP, because the official RP aint official at all. It has no weight behind it. The whole "Laws of Sirius" is about the only "official" set of RP rules any faction can impose on offenders.
Another problem is that official factions are not allowed to use any form of faction power towards their indies. So, if a lol-dread goes to liberty, i cant tell my men to log 5 falcatas and blast it to bits. No, instead i have to call in a third party to deal with MY problem, because admins doesnt allow ME to clean up my own damn mess.
This problem is a result of the hopeless situation that admins have placed the official factions in. Yes there has been abuse and subjugation of indies in the past. However, admins does NOT believe in the concept of "common sense". This is why official factions are merely a title.
When your faction becomes official you have the right to add gold plating to your name and logo, then you can go weep in a corner as the shackles are being put on. Blodo is right, an independent faction basically pays 500m to loose their "power". The only difference is that you have the right to block others from using your own stations (a 6.10 is just as effective IMO), the right to get your own ID (at the expense of that tiny control over the NPC faction, thus potentially screwing yourself over), You also has the right to get a "free" CAU 8 (it will cost you 3 months+ to get it....) AND let us not forget, a faction subforum you yourself cant moderate....
There IS no real bonus worthwhile from being official. The amount of "power" you have is exponential to the amount of people you can befriend and or manipulate over skype. However the only real bonus that IS worth it, is that you automatically gain respect. Because people realize that IF they screw with you, you can screw them over. And that tiny bit of respect and notoriety is what makes it all worth it. If you are willing to spend 2-10 hours a day managing your pixels.
I could agree on the whole faction stuff isn't taken into account in game lore, that's no news the dev team has always been like this.
But honestly all your other points are irrelevant. If you're unable to create an efficent high command to share the work, then you've got the meaning of being a faction leader wrong. It isn't about doing everything yourself, it's about keeping a boat running in the right direction. You'll never be able to do everything by yourself and getting different opinions is essential. That seriously cuts down the 2-10 hours a day.
If indies does not respect your officialty then that's another matter and you don't really have to go far to understand what's causing it. At the same time, for these issues you have the faction leaders chat or even liberty emergency chat you're in. Dropping a message about it would be much more efficent than having 5 101st come down from Alpha and trying to catch up with the guy. Disco is a community and if you're unable to interact with the other groups of the community, and that's not about being teddybears with everyone but at least being capable of being professional when it comes to matters like this, then you're going for serious problems and limitations for your faction.
(11-08-2012, 04:52 PM)Alley Wrote: [ -> ]I could agree on the whole faction stuff isn't taken into account in game lore, that's no news the dev team has always been like this.
actually, that is a fact. and i could pull skypelogs to prove it. However that would be more destructive then productive
(11-08-2012, 04:52 PM)Alley Wrote: [ -> ]faction leaders chat
that chat is about as productive and rewarding as a box of terminal deceases.
Liberty EM.... now, why should i do OORP things to deal with a iRP problem? please do explain your position on this. I am rather interested in how you can stay iRP while doing totally OORP and metagaming actions..
Actually Prysin totally nails it and the points he mentions are very relevant.
Ofcourse it's difficult to imagine for someone who doesn't actually lead a faction, Alley.
I also agree to same degree with Prysin on his points.
There is no written rule based mechanism that allows official faction input on the lore. I also agree with the Devs because some factions do ridiculously stupid stuff. Good example is OC bretonian NAP, OC get nothing from it instead loosing 1/4 of their ZoI, Bretonian Law point 3.2 declares Cardamine as fully restricted contraband FYI, meanwhile the said "laws" are still unreadable because bunch of the said official factions are too lazy to fix them. So it is really hard to blame Devs for everything when the official factions refuse to do even small things like making their laws readable, I guess it is also normal for indies to refuse following stuff that they cannot read, I find insulting enforcing such laws as well.
I guess that new a way more detailed faction rules should be written,there all grey areas should be covered, this also is the only way to ensure that all sides could work together and all factions could be treated right.
There should be written what official faction HQ can change in Lore and what cannot change together with proper set of options that could be discussed by the dev team and 1 vote for each faction leader when taking important decisions concerning whole mod- let say each dev can have 15 votes or so.
Add couple of real in-game intensives(Flagships for example,1 official faction base per faction requires no food/water/oxygen supply,mining factions get 10% more yield, trading factions get limited bunch to 3k GB like escort transport, pirate factions get limited bunch of 600 ms Cruise LFs or 5k CDs, LH gets TLAGSNET,) to join official faction and you fix the problem- it is not that hard actually.
(11-08-2012, 05:10 PM)madvillain Wrote: [ -> ]for someone who doesn't actually lead a faction, Alley.
How about for someone who has extremely successfully led a faction, Joey?
But hey, you didn't pay attention to that.
the "laws being unreadable" is a problem CREATED by the change of forums. They were perfectly fine BEFORE the forum change, yet indies were no better back then either. So stop spouting irrelevant BS.
The OC - Bret NAP was justified in its time. OC aren't after the brets, they never were, however both brets and OC were looking to kill kusari. The whole NAP is based upon the concept of "we both shoot faction A, so why spend time and energy shooting each other when we can shoot faction A together" A perfectly iRP "logical" move, however how logical it would be politically iRP is another story, then again, we aint allowed to post and or discuss politics on this board, so better not go down that road.
(11-08-2012, 05:37 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2012, 05:10 PM)madvillain Wrote: [ -> ]for someone who doesn't actually lead a faction, Alley.
How about for someone who has extremely successfully led a faction, Joey?
But hey, you didn't pay attention to that.
Past "success" does not make up for present "failure"
(11-08-2012, 05:38 PM)Prysin Wrote: [ -> ]Past "success" does not make up for present "failure"
Here's personal... Take it elsewhere, Prysin.
(11-08-2012, 05:45 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2012, 05:38 PM)Prysin Wrote: [ -> ]Past "success" does not make up for present "failure"
Here's personal... Take it elsewhere, Prysin.
You are reading too much into it. My statement is merely philosophical and not directed at anybody in particular. However if you do feel offended by my statement, then i feel obliged to apologize.
on that note
sorru bro <3
PS:
(11-08-2012, 05:37 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: [ -> ]But hey, you didn't pay attention to that.
Quote:Here's personal... Take it elsewhere,
(11-08-2012, 05:10 PM)madvillain Wrote: [ -> ]Ofcourse it's difficult to imagine for someone who doesn't actually lead a faction, Alley.
I know very well what I'm talking about. You seem to have forgot that in 4.85 GRN was restricted to the gallic borderworlds and could not leave it while all other gallic factions did and it was seriously nailing our activity.
After two weeks I became GRN faction leader I got us the possibility to do so. It's all about willingness and having valid points. I just don't deal with faction leadership myself anymore because I don't have the time for it and some people seem to not have that decency.