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+--- Thread: Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=98709)
RE: Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 11:23 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:(05-24-2013, 09:38 AM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: the threat of violence is in all diplomacy, no matter how warm the hand-shake or how charming the smile, infact without it we would barley be able to recognize each other, so there is no "peace" with zoners, zoners are valuable for them for the time being, but that doesn't mean they can be replaced in double quick time. Zoners are tougher than they appear.
Again, you forget again that ZA is only a group of zoners and do not represent all of them at all. Due to this, you guys have way less significance in the Omicrons than you think you have. Corsairs, Outcasts, Core, Order, they can smash you any time they wish because if you are gone, there will be still Zoners left out there in the Omicrons (e.g. Phoenix, OSI) who can think rationally and conduct their diplomacy way better than you do. And while zoners overall may not be replacable, your group indeed is.
After a bit of thinking I came to the conclusion is that the issue with your way of thinking is that instead of earning your neutrality and proving your usefulness through diplomacy and various dealings, you started with claiming outright, unquestionable neutrality (without doing anything for it) and then answered with hostility to everyone trying to question that. And by my experience that is a common and recurring issue among the indie zoner populace.
And then claiming that a bunch of anarchists with a few warships on the edge of inhabited space are militaristically on par with the most high-tech paramilitary terrorist organization, two mini-houses and the largest bounty hunting organization across Sirius is outright incredible, stupid, nearing powergaming and is just worsening your situation.
And what you still fail to understand is that our group is different, we don't suck up to anyone, that includes the corsairs; if they dislike our attitude, they can go and dig a hole somewhere, no one has stated that zoners must be outright weak and have to follow everyones orders, like the delicit souls of the pheonix who are quick to apologies. Now it's true that their rp is about peace and neutrality ( which just shows how boring the omicrons ) but its also true that is not of their buisness, or yours. I'm all for the order or the sairs to attack, if they find a good reasonable point they might as well try and kill us, but that won't happend because we haven't done anything wrong, alteast not yet. Your opinions have been noted and dissmissed. Why don't you tell that to the admins because it seems to me more of a complaint not an opinion, and perhaps read more about the zoners because clearly you have no idea.
Edit 2 : You have been anti in every zoner thread there is im just wondering why don't they exclude you, opinions are opinions, i don't like some of the stuff on the zoner lore either, but you don't see me force resolutions about it or complain about other factions doing something that i find to be outright crazy.
RE: Zoners - Thyrzul - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 12:10 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: And what you still fail to understand is that our group is different,
Different than Zoners, yes I understand. What I don't understand is why you have choosen this ID and faction name then.
(05-24-2013, 12:10 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: no one has stated that zoners must be outright weak
Outright weak? No. But weaker than their surroundings. That is why their good relations, diplomatic skills and usefulness are their most important asset to survive out there.
(05-24-2013, 12:10 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Now it's true that their rp is about peace and neutrality ( which just shows how boring the omicrons ) but its also true that is not of their buisness, or yours.
So you find being Zoner in the Omicrons boring? Pick an other ID with more pew if you are looking for that. You can choose the Order ID, the BHG Core ID, the Outcast ID and the Corsair ID... oh wait, even the newly opened Nomad ID for having some fight out there. Yeah, a pretty list of opportunities, "which just shows how boring the omicrons" are...
Seriously, why did you choose the only non-warmongering faction of the Omicrons to warmonger in the Omicrons?
Seriously, why did you choose the only non-warmongering faction of the Omicrons to warmonger in the Omicrons?
(05-24-2013, 12:10 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: I'm all for the order or the sairs to attack, if they find a good reasonable point they might as well try and kill us, but that won't happend because we haven't done anything wrong, alteast not yet.
You sure did, and if you continue to fail to realize what you did, they will indeed attack and erase the ZA, I am sure about that.
(05-24-2013, 12:10 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: read more about the zoners because clearly you have no idea.
What a coincidence, I was about to recommend the same to you.
(05-24-2013, 12:10 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: i don't like some of the stuff on the zoner lore either, but you don't see me force resolutions about it or complain about other factions doing something that i find to be outright crazy.
Right, I don't see you trying to bend the lore, just simply ignoring most of it... or at least the parts you don't like in it.
Sooner or later, you will find out that your actions have consequences, like the previous Zoner factions did who decided to derive from the main Zoner roleplay too much. And the later they come, the more severe they will be.
Sooner or later, you will find out that your actions have consequences, like the previous Zoner factions did who decided to derive from the main Zoner roleplay too much. And the later they come, the more severe they will be.
RE: Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-24-2013
That's ancient history, which I intend to avoid, still that doesn't restrict free ideas, and I have mentioned more than twice that Im all against limiting the zoner capships, but you can't find a reasonable solution that will suit everyone, because people will always think differently, but thats debate, thats a genuine debate and thats the right way to fix things, to discuss and exchange ideas. But some people, especialy from what I've read are anti-zoners in nature.
RE: Zoners - Anaximander - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 12:50 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: But some people, especialy from what I've read are anti-zoners in nature.
It's legitimate to feel like that when people are criticizing things you hold dear, however you should also consider the possibility that perhaps you are wrong before you rule off criticism as "anti-zoner in nature".
RE: Zoners - Thyrzul - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 12:50 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: But some people, especialy from what I've read are anti-zoners in nature.
Are you referring to somebody specific, dear sir?
RE: Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-24-2013
No im not refferring to anyone, and I can take critisism, but being anti in nature is not critisizm, its dogma, and dogma has no place in a debate.
RE: Zoners - Thyrzul - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 01:45 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: No im not refferring to anyone, and I can take critisism, but being anti in nature is not critisizm, its dogma, and dogma has no place in a debate.
I guess I can agree to that. Narrow minded mentality in general has no place in a debate as it brings it no further.
Good thing there are actual things we can agree on
RE: Zoners - Crackpunch - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 12:50 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: But some people, especialy from what I've read are anti-zoners in nature.
Not anti-Zoner, but 'anti-unexplained capspam'.
RE: Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-24-2013
some people like caps, you can't deny that to them or force a resolution against them, but you can try to convince them in a none-aggressive way, I don't fly my cap anymore because theres too many in my taste, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't get one, and from what i've read its not really about the cap-spammers but more on " why caps are openly allowed" - it's open because without it its too much close to the original FL, we can argue about this all day long, but i do agree that somehow ( atleast rp-wise ) we can restrict access to zoner cap ships, the just way is to encourage more people to start factions, and because factions are much like orginizations, there are rules in it.
However, you may take a different view and if so, that's alright, but its not about finding a solution and thats it, cuz its a community and it refelcts and affects others as well, so bottom line is, find something that will be suitable for everyone ( I mean the majority )
RE: Zoners - Pancakes - 05-24-2013
Just reminding everyone to keep it civil as the local civil guard guy. Ye, you heard it right punks!
Also, Zoner capships are something that is, well, highly misunderstood by many.
First, Nephilim is a colony ship. It's supposed to have defensive capabilities to defend the inhabitants, but that's it. The carrier isn't a warship, it's a carrier, it carries stuff. The only true inRP warship designed for fighting is the Fearless, and it is designed as an extremely heavy escort for their convoys.
Using their capitals as warships is simply inRP stupid. You take a colony full with civilians to war?
The ultimate way to make zoners proper is simply nerf the capitals. The Corvo is among the best cruisers in the game when it's a research vessel, and the Battleships as well. Make them proper to the zoner way of living and you solved the problem wholly.