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+--- Thread: Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=98709)
RE: Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-24-2013
Jinkusu from the start was a warship to protect zoners ( mostly in theta ), only later on that it also served as a mobile "freeport" but its role is very simple, defense, defense can also be a strong offense. The fact that it has a different name now with a different description does not mean it is what it is. In a nutshell, it's a warship but at the same time a mobile station, and zoners aren't civilians ( unless you put some civilian pilots in there to pretend ).
RE: Zoners - Alvin - 05-24-2013
Jinkusu is a thing of the past and if you actually read the role of Nephilim, is actually it is "to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations". The ship is meant to go outside Sirius, not to stay in and shoot your enemies.
Please enlighten me how a "ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony. " is regarded as a warship ?
RE: Zoners - Jinx - 05-24-2013
@pencakes:
you got things a bit wrong
nepihilim is a reverse engineered leviathan. it is a dreadnought customized to function as a colony ship - not a colony ship customized to function as a dreadnought. - its primary role is - and always has been - a tool of violent retribution. that is its history ( disco canon ) - the adjustment as a colony ship came LATER. - it is like a "module kit" that is applied.
the aquillon is a poor mans nephilim. while people indeed live on the nephilim for extended time - or live there quite their entire life - the aquilon is a PURE military ship - with short mission times. it is meant for guard duty and defensive purposes - also to expand zoner exploration. - think of it as a ship that houses just as many ppl as a nephlim - but while you can live in luxory on a nephilim - you have to share bunks on an aquillon
the fearless - contrary to what you say is actually the only genuine zoner ship that is NOT a warship. - AoM made it to be a superheavy ARMORED TRANSPORT. that is meant to be the primary vessel to supply edgeworld freeports - as the whale ( when it was introduced ) was meant to cover the house to borderworld routes - which is impossible now due to docking restrictions )
the corvo - yea - corvo - shoved to zoners for - i cannot remember what reasons. but it woudl be better off being owned and build by cryer ( CRI )
RE: Zoners - Agmen of Eladesor - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 09:38 AM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Zoners are tougher than they appear.
That's why they lost the last two times they actually met up with a real military force. If we didn't already have Gallia around, they'd be the France of Disco. We're tough, we mean it - oh, crap, they're actually shooting at us, we surrender! (Oh, they may bluster a bit when the shooting starts, but in the end, Zoners have no testicular fortitude for combat.)
RE: Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 04:17 PM)vanalvo Wrote: Jinkusu is a thing of the past and if you actually read the role of Nephilim, is actually it is "to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations". The ship is meant to go outside Sirius, not to stay in and shoot your enemies.
Please enlighten me how a "ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony. " is regarded as a warship ?
Well I already told you, jinkusu ( and jinkusu probably cuz of jinx ;D ) was and still a warship that had many purposes, but the main one was to create fear to the elders of the corsair empire. It is a warship that is suited to function as a "mobile freeport" but in no way it suggests its just a mere station for drinking and having fun.
Just because it has a different description/name doesn't mean it has a different role. It is a warship that is cable of the following, not capable of the following and then being a warship. ( I like jinx attitude ).
RE: Zoners - Zen_Mechanics - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 04:54 PM)Agmen of Eladesor Wrote:(05-24-2013, 09:38 AM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Zoners are tougher than they appear.
That's why they lost the last two times they actually met up with a real military force. If we didn't already have Gallia around, they'd be the France of Disco. We're tough, we mean it - oh, crap, they're actually shooting at us, we surrender! (Oh, they may bluster a bit when the shooting starts, but in the end, Zoners have no testicular fortitude for combat.)
Seperate yeah, but united .. that's 3 against 1 advantage, considering that the zoners are the most active faction, They bite not just bark.
RE: Zoners - Haste - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 04:17 PM)Jinx Wrote: nepihilim is a reverse engineered leviathan. it is a dreadnought customized to function as a colony ship - not a colony ship customized to function as a dreadnought. - its primary role is - and always has been - a tool of violent retribution. that is its history ( disco canon ) - the adjustment as a colony ship came LATER. - it is like a "module kit" that is applied.
Yet that doesn't change the fact that it seems highly immoral / irresponsible to me to take a ship with thousands of civilians into battle. Now, you can claim that those Nephilims that are actively used for combat don't have those people on-board. Fine. That doesn't change the fact that that's not exactly efficient use of resources - you have all those quarters, all that "growing food on the ship itself", all that mass. It takes a whole lot of fuel to move that extra mass, and if you happen to lose a fight, all those resources spent on the non-combat parts of the Nephilim are also gone.
So, to conclude: using a Nephilim as a warship is either immoral or just plain stupid.
RE: Zoners - Redon - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 04:59 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Seperate yeah, but united .. that's 3 against 1 advantage, considering that the zoners are the most active faction, They bite not just bark.
Ingame activity has nothing to do with a faction's strength in roleplay.
RE: Zoners - n00bl3t - 05-24-2013
(05-24-2013, 04:54 PM)Agmen of Eladesor Wrote:(05-24-2013, 09:38 AM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Zoners are tougher than they appear.
That's why they lost the last two times they actually met up with a real military force. If we didn't already have Gallia around, they'd be the France of Disco. We're tough, we mean it - oh, crap, they're actually shooting at us, we surrender! (Oh, they may bluster a bit when the shooting starts, but in the end, Zoners have no testicular fortitude for combat.)
(05-24-2013, 05:03 PM)Redon Wrote: Ingame activity has nothing to do with a faction's strength in roleplay.
Do these two belong together?
RE: Zoners - MartoGuy - 05-24-2013
If in-game activity, has nothing to do with faction activity/strength then why the hell are we playing RP games. If the role you take up has certain goals, would you not strive to achieve them? Almost all anti-zoner opinions are connected to the lore of the faction, at least as I see it. Sorry to intrude with my opinion, I am not an avid forum poster, but shouldn't we try to leave our own marks in this story we call Freelancer Discovery? Should we just walk the treadmill each day?
If I make a Liberty Police char. am I only allowed to do as my officer told me? If I go out of my way to hunt LR, or try and help the Order because in-game and in-RP I have a more personal reason to do so, would that be a rule violation? Would that make people say "Hey stop that, the lore says you shouldn't do that!" ? In my opinion each faction, each House, each Player, should and even must try and change the world.
This faction says it wants to be more agressive in nature, let them play more aggresive in nature, they are still bounded by their ID. The ID being to restrict the Zoners to their current lore, but as we see the current lore of Zoners is changing. Multi-house spanning corporations. House wide religion. Comrades against the alien threat. All of these are Zoner factions. All of these were groups of players, who with time, effort and patience left their own mark on the story, but still followed their prime Ideology. Freedom and neutrality. They protected it, freedom by profit, freedom by fate, and now as I see it at least freedom by fire. As for the neutrality, you cant be all good, even the OSI had a rub in with Rheinland, but as long as they are trying to stick to the core of their Zoner beliefs then it is all good.
One other main concern is that the ships they are flying aren't made for war. Although that may be true, lots of inventions were not made for war, and yet have ravaged mankind. Maybe the ship is made for colonization, but when push comes to shove and the edge to the bone, you have no choice. Leave them colonists on the planet, fly it with minimal staff, if you have to.
Another concern is that they must be a small divided cells, as someone mentioned a zoner wouldn't give a damn, about another one on another station. But, why? Surely if some is killing, harassing or even threatening someone who hold the same ideals and beliefs as you, you might be concerned? Because he is not in your system doesn't mean this will be an isolated case? Were those guys in the corner collecting money for a defense militia? Why not spare a few credits?
In conclusion, the Zoners, even though lore-wise a small group with no real power, are entitled to their ship lines in my opinion. People who have sacrificed a calm life, comfort and even loved ones to follow the ideals of freedom, shouldn't be willing to give it away so easily. And the determination to live that life is represented in-game by the players who play the faction. Some of them are indies and some of them are big factions, but they all follow their own view of the Zoner life.
There are 12 year old admirals, space animals and all sorts strange things in this story we all build, and this is sometimes what makes it so interesting. But when some people want to change a faction, it is considered a no-no. Say that they couldn't unite zoners, they probably can't, say that their ships must suck or be restricted, they probably aren't so op, say that they don't deserve a ship-line, compared to some factions they do deserve it. But let them play, and let them try and let them change, if they can, the world. And if you don't like it, if you think that corsairs should squash them (example) , or they should be punished by some other faction. Go in-game, log in with a corsair char or something and just play it out.