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+--- Thread: are you kiddin me? (/showthread.php?tid=12743)
are you kiddin me? - Lux - 10-05-2008
Just look what I highlighted... it states "Level 30 limit is NOT ACTIVE". How much clearer do you need? On the top it doesn't EXCLUDE setion 5 voidifications:P
EDIT: Lohingren, read what I quoted a couple of posts earlier... They were in a guard system, therefore Tenacity could open fire. That is not officially sanctionnable, though it could easily be frowned upon.
are you kiddin me? - Zelot - 10-05-2008
' Wrote:Just look what I highlighted... it states "Level 30 limit is NOT ACTIVE". How much clearer do you need? On the top it doesn't EXCLUDE setion 5 voidifications:P
EDIT: Lohingren, read what I quoted a couple of posts earlier...
The top states that the ruls in section 6 are void. That would mean only section 6, so it doesnt matter what it says, it is only applicable to the rules in section 6, not section 5.
are you kiddin me? - Lux - 10-05-2008
' Wrote:The top states that the ruls in section 6 are void. That would mean only section 6, so it doesnt matter what it says, it is only applicable to the rules in section 6, not section 5.I don't see where you're seeing "only" in there. Nowhere in that quote does it say "only" section 6. Besides, why would Igiss put the part about the level 30 rule not being applicable in guard systems if it didn't count?
are you kiddin me? - Zelot - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:I don't see where you're seeing "only" in there. Nowhere in that quote does it say "only" section 6.
Thats the point, by putting 6 in there, it means to the exclusion of all other sections of the rules, otherwise it wouldn't say anything, or it would say "all pvp rules" not "the rules in section 6". You see what I mean? By saying it just applies to section six, it by definition means it doesn't apply to other sections of the rule.
edit: I agree it doesn't make sense, but the rules are what they are and we cant simply ignore what they say. What needs to be done now is this inconsistency needs to be taken to the Admins for clarification.
are you kiddin me? - Lux - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:Thats the point, by putting 6 in there, it means to the exclusion of all other sections of the rules, otherwise it wouldn't say anything, or it would say "all pvp rules" not "the rules in section 6". You see what I mean? By saying it just applies to section six, it by definition means it doesn't apply to other sections of the rule.No, because if it did say "all pvp rules", then in guard systems you could kill anyone with any set of weapons, no matter your faction alignment. And saying "certain section 5 rules and section 6" gets kind of long and confusing, not to mention pointless since you already say what rules from other sections are nullified.
P.S. You didn't answer my question, why'd they put the under-30 part if it wasn't relevant? As far as I can see, the rules are made to be precise and without useless parts.
EDIT: If you stole from a store but in a very extravagant fashon, and there's not a law written against that particular fashion of stealing, do you think you'd be exempt from jail time and/or a fine? No! You'd suffer the same consequence as if you just strolled in and stole stuff like every robber. Just because it's not specific does NOT mean it allows you to do things it dosn't mention.
are you kiddin me? - Zelot - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:No, because if it did say "all pvp rules", then in guard systems you could kill anyone with any set of weapons, no matter your faction alignment. And saying "certain section 5 rules and section 6" gets kind of long and confusing, not to mention pointless since you already say what rules from other sections are nullified.
P.S. You didn't answer my question, why'd they put the under-30 part if it wasn't relevant? As far as I can see, the rules are made to be precise and without useless parts.
The rules are like a set of laws. In real life, name me one single country that has a set of laws that is simple, and clear and concise. They are not. People try to make them as clear as possible, but sometimes one conflicts with another, when that happens you go to a higher authority, in our case the Admins, to sort out the issue.
are you kiddin me? - Lux - 10-06-2008
Read my edit. This is getting annoying, arguing over rules that no one can be sure to understand except Igiss and the admins. I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, but still, if you think Tenacity broke the rules, then why didn't he get sanctionned for it? Just my 2 cents.
EDIT: Guess I should shut up before I get banned :O
are you kiddin me? - Kuraine - 10-06-2008
As far as i'm concerned, if you are in a Guard system, the faction that owns it can blow you up regardless of your level, ship or any other excuse you might come up with, excepting of course if you are a member of the faction that owns the guard system (for example, doesn't matter whether you're an Order indie or a member of Black Squadron, you have the right to use the Order Guard system). Possibly that Order's allies might be allowed to use the guard system as well, but its common courtesy to ask permission if there are any Order players around online.
are you kiddin me? - Zelot - 10-06-2008
Theft is theft, doesn't matter how it happens. That is a silly and out of place analogy. This is more like one of the many loopholes in modern law, there because the rules were not made at one time as one single document. It has evolved, having parts added and taken away over time. Sometimes these additions and subtractions are done in such a way that something is left uncovered, or is redundant, or is conflicting, as I said, in those cases, we take it to the Admins for clarification. Because you say it doesn't makes sense, or you think it is meaningless, does not mean it can just be ignored. This is one of the reasons we have Admins here, to help clarify situations just like this. Think of them as the Discovery Supreme Court, they decide on the legal matters such as this. Their only job is not to wield the ban hammer or sanction spork if you prefer.
Edit: And Kurine has just kindly given us the clarification we are looking for. Kurine, maybe a edit of the server rules is in order.
are you kiddin me? - Lux - 10-06-2008
Zelot, just read what Kuraine and many other people have written before you and me. I'm out of this conversation for now, I don't feel like having an admin warning for rule lawyering and the like.