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+--- Thread: are you kiddin me? (/showthread.php?tid=12743)
are you kiddin me? - Zelot - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:Zelot, just read what Kuraine and many other people have written before you and me. I'm out of this conversation for now, I don't feel like having an admin warning for rule lawyering and the like.
Uhm... Have you read a single word I have written? You seem to be completely ignoring what I say, or otherwise completely oblivious to understanding things that you read. All I said was the rules are unclear, and we needed an admin to clarify. Why is it people get so upset when I say that it is up to us to read and follow the rules, and up to the admins to interpret it. You can't just ignore parts of the rules because you think this way or that way, you bring it up with the admins and get them to clarify it.
are you kiddin me? - Baltar - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:That part states that killing under-30s in guard systems IS allowed, no matter what section 5 says. Yes, the rules say that those instances nullify section 6, but they don't state that the rules inside don't apply. Otherwise, why put the part that I marked in red there?
There is no case that could be made here; it's quite clear that you can kill anyone with good reason and RP with any or all of those circumstances.
EDIT: Sorry for the rule lawyering... I just wanted to try to make that clear, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Hmm ... by your logic 5.3 FORBIDS killing under 30 regardless of what section 6 says. Come on ... you cannot pick and choose what applies and what does not. Read it ...
Quote:5.3 Attacking characters of level 29 and below is prohibited. Characters under level 30 cannot be attacked by players of any level, except if they have non-Civilian ID onboard, and except cases of self-defense.
' Wrote:Just look what I highlighted... it states "Level 30 limit is NOT ACTIVE". How much clearer do you need? On the top it doesn't EXCLUDE setion 5 voidifications:P
Read the WHOLE rule ... HellFire0 ... you are reading ONLY the portion of the rule that you like. Read the WHOLE statement. It specifically reads, "6.7 All PvP/RP rules listed below in section 6 are void in the following situations." See the highlighted portion. It specifically states IN SECTION 6 ... doesn't say section 5. If your argument is that section 6 takes precedence over section 5 ... then it must take precedence of sections 1, 2, 3, 4 and 7 as well.
' Wrote:No, because if it did say "all pvp rules", then in guard systems you could kill anyone with any set of weapons, no matter your faction alignment. And saying "certain section 5 rules and section 6" gets kind of long and confusing, not to mention pointless since you already say what rules from other sections are nullified.
P.S. You didn't answer my question, why'd they put the under-30 part if it wasn't relevant? As far as I can see, the rules are made to be precise and without useless parts.
EDIT: If you stole from a store but in a very extravagant fashon, and there's not a law written against that particular fashion of stealing, do you think you'd be exempt from jail time and/or a fine? No! You'd suffer the same consequence as if you just strolled in and stole stuff like every robber. Just because it's not specific does NOT mean it allows you to do things it dosn't mention.
Again ... you are only quoting the portion of the rule that you like. It ACTUALLY states, "6.7 All PvP/RP rules listed below in section 6 are void in the following situations." The highlighted portion is the part you fail to recognize.
How about this rule HellFire0?
Quote:3.5 Attempts to pose as admins, threatening players with sanctions, attempts to interpret rules are not allowed. Applying to admin's name without prior consent of the admin is not allowed.
Is this rule null and void based on the rule you're quoting?
' Wrote:As far as i'm concerned, if you are in a Guard system, the faction that owns it can blow you up regardless of your level, ship or any other excuse you might come up with, excepting of course if you are a member of the faction that owns the guard system (for example, doesn't matter whether you're an Order indie or a member of Black Squadron, you have the right to use the Order Guard system). Possibly that Order's allies might be allowed to use the guard system as well, but its common courtesy to ask permission if there are any Order players around online.
So my Order indie can destroy any ship for any reason in Omicron 100 without regard to role play ... especially if they do not have an Order ID and IFF? I mean ... do I still have to order them to halt for inspection? Or can I bypass making any conversation whatsoever? Are we now to treat all guard systems as PVP like we do Connecticut?
I do hope there is more to a guard system than simple kill kill kill.
are you kiddin me? - n00bl3t - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:So my Order indie can destroy any ship for any reason in Omicron 100 without regard to role play ... especially if they do not have an Order ID and IFF? I mean ... do I still have to order them to halt for inspection? Or can I bypass making any conversation whatsoever? Are we now to treat all guard systems as PVP like we do Connecticut?
I do hope there is more to a guard system than simple kill kill kill.
In a faction owned system, you can pretty much do what you want.
(I had no idea independents were allowed to go into a faction-owned system Kuraine?)
are you kiddin me? - Zygoeths - 10-06-2008
I got this fantastic idea you all might like, level lock on jumpgates, jumpholes.
are you kiddin me? - Kuraine - 10-06-2008
Quote:In a faction owned system, you can pretty much do what you want.
(I had no idea independents were allowed to go into a faction-owned system Kuraine?)
This is essentially correct. While the Black Squadron Order faction may own Omicron 100, for example, they are not allowed to prevent Order ID players from entering or using it, even if they're not a member of the Black Squadron. This is just an example, but it applies to all guard systems. The perk for owning it of course is getting to mod it etc. It wouldn't be right to exclude indies from their own guard system, just because they're not a member of the faction that owns it. If that were the case, virtually all the Outcasts wouldn't be able to go into Omicron 85 because they're not members of the 101st faction that owns it.
are you kiddin me? - Zygoeths - 10-06-2008
This... Does... Not... Need.... To.... Be.... Posted.... On.... Anymore. Someone please close the topic, this is stupid, its all over a little noob entering a gaurd system (he obviously had no idea what was bad about it) He didn't reply, he started blabing, its done with, doesn't need any more replies.... I really don't think it's a big deal. If you wanna suggest something, go to mod thread.
are you kiddin me? - jpo - 10-06-2008
lol, of course this thread needs to go on. people are saying no server rule got broken, they obviously dont understand the rules.
Last time I checked, firing a cd was attacking.
Last time I checked attacking a l26 was against the rules.
Thats whats written in the rules and I haven't seen an admin say different. Until I do the thread needs to go on.
are you kiddin me? - Zelot - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:lol, of course this thread needs to go on. people are saying no server rule got broken, they obviously dont understand the rules.
Last time I checked, firing a cd was attacking.
Last time I checked attacking a l26 was against the rules.
Thats whats written in the rules and I haven't seen an admin say different. Until I do the thread needs to go on.
Kuraine up there is an Admin.
are you kiddin me? - n00bl3t - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:This is essentially correct. While the Black Squadron Order faction may own Omicron 100, for example, they are not allowed to prevent Order ID players from entering or using it, even if they're not a member of the Black Squadron. This is just an example, but it applies to all guard systems. The perk for owning it of course is getting to mod it etc. It wouldn't be right to exclude indies from their own guard system, just because they're not a member of the faction that owns it. If that were the case, virtually all the Outcasts wouldn't be able to go into Omicron 85 because they're not members of the 101st faction that owns it.
Noted.
are you kiddin me? - Baltar - 10-06-2008
' Wrote:In a faction owned system, you can pretty much do what you want.
(I had no idea independents were allowed to go into a faction-owned system Kuraine?)
So its PVP time in guard systems.
' Wrote:This is essentially correct. While the Black Squadron Order faction may own Omicron 100, for example, they are not allowed to prevent Order ID players from entering or using it, even if they're not a member of the Black Squadron. This is just an example, but it applies to all guard systems. The perk for owning it of course is getting to mod it etc. It wouldn't be right to exclude indies from their own guard system, just because they're not a member of the faction that owns it. If that were the case, virtually all the Outcasts wouldn't be able to go into Omicron 85 because they're not members of the 101st faction that owns it.
I agree ... guard systems have the perks when you are the owner. The whole reason for purchasing the system is to call a place yours. My only objection is that factions that own a system dictate to all systems within their ZoI the same as if they were guard systems. If say Liberty Navy has the same control of New York as they do Virginia ... shouldn't they be required to also PAY for New York like they did Virginia? Think about the game Monopoly ... you gotta buy each piece of property before you can build houses or hotels.
Also ... I recall a huge discussion a year or so ago regarding Hellfire Legion [HF] trying to "limit" who could purchase the Hacker Spyglass found only in Vespucci. Since HF was the official Lane Hacker faction, they had rights to it. But the admin team at the time ruled that HF had no exclusive right to the Spyglass. Now ... my question here is ... are we going to reverse this? If we are going to say that a faction can have complete control of their guard system, they should also have control as to who can purchase from the bases within their guard system.