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+--- Thread: Pirates in Battleships (/showthread.php?tid=11434)
Pirates in Battleships - Rudo - 08-20-2008
I don't disagree with how and why factions get capitals. Keep in mind that the populations we see are still a fraction of what's out there. Who says IMG don't have more people, more bases... even a planet of their own? They are prospectors and explorers, and they hold on very tightly to their claims.
Caps should be far rarer than they are, I will admit though. Gunboats should be the ceiling of aspirations for most that don't desire an RP command post to go with it. They're roleplay platforms, not leet pwnmobiles.
Pirates in Battleships - ScornStar - 08-20-2008
' Wrote:I don't disagree with how and why factions get capitals. Keep in mind that the populations we see are still a fraction of what's out there. Who says IMG don't have more people, more bases... even a planet of their own? They are prospectors and explorers, and they hold on very tightly to their claims.
Caps should be far rarer than they are, I will admit though. Gunboats should be the ceiling of aspirations for most that don't desire an RP command post to go with it. They're roleplay platforms, not leet pwnmobiles.
There are just as many PVP hounds in bombers as in caps. Cept the PVP hounds in bombers get the added bonus of not haveing thier RP questioned due to ship size.
Why do we automatically trust those in the most powerfully and efficently built craft in the game? (Bombers)
If anything due to thier destructive capabilities I would think the houses would lock those down to protect thier caps. However all lock downs are cap only and, IMHO are due to bias more than RP. And glazed over with some common party line about RP exspence.
If I controlled a House, no non faction bomber would fly in my house space as I dont want them makeing light work of our exspensive capships.
Bombers are WAR machines plan and simple, no other purpose. Capships can be used to host guest, do research, exsplore, contain subjects/prisoners, too dangerous to be on a station/planet, mobile tradeing post, an Outpost, a personal dwelling, a mobile armed workshop, a ferry for refugees, move important diplomats. [sarcasm] You cant do these in the more approved/less harrassed and higher RP quality bomber. [/sarcasm]
Those point coupled with the fact that any faction in this game has at least as much resources as America alone and FAR more tech could field capitals. NPC make up the fodder. Yes fighters or strike craft are just fodder. The space combat equivilent to a infantrymen. I for one dont play disco so I can Rp being a exspendable nobody.
Not all of us want to play fodder. But for those that do, this mod is balanced in such a way where a pilot can be as good as Rick Hunter from Robotech, or some other ace. Right now there are to many aces out there and not enough commanders, captains, or admirals. People here keep thinking small.
I would just say it makes for more sense to travel long distances in larger ships. After all you dont sale accross the ocean in a open top motor boat or even a 40 footer. You got in things that have galleys, quarters, bathrooms, showers, and spare crew. Unlike a fighter. Fighter class explorers are not rational.
Thats the same principle as to why our Navy has bigger ships which travel far away and the coast guard has small ships. I see people here argue for the opisite and I cant agree.
The resources are there. The reasons are there. The logic is there. If you dont want a cap cause your self concious about how you will be looked upon then thats fine. If you dont want to fly a cap because its not your style then fine. But it is not sporting or noble to harass and trash talk others chosen ships. All it does is draw attention to yourself and invite others to pick at your logic.
This post was draw from Rudos post but not aimed at him. It is the general logic and additude I am at odds with here. This inverse machismo that smaller ship = more RP must stop its simply wrong. This is the additude that is not helping. As it does not fix the real problems in balance but points fingers at the wrong things and seems mostly ego driven. If getting killed by a cap while your in a light fighter makes you angry then this is not the server for you. RP is fun because it is not balanced like Unreal Tournement. Its RP which emunlates life in the context of this universe, and life is not fair. To make it fair removes the soul of RP.
Pirates in Battleships - n00bl3t - 08-20-2008
' Wrote:dont forget us junkers, we "Salvage" things!
why, i fly a corsair gunboat right now, and I've been considering runnin down to buy a rheinland cruiser...
You have my complete support. Go do it now! :P
Pirates in Battleships - Tenacity - 08-20-2008
' Wrote:You have my complete support. Go do it now! :P
To be honest it wouldnt really be all that OORP so long as I didnt use any rheinland-specific equipment (i.e. guns) on it.
The Junker's Union operates in rheinland and it's borders. That includes new berlin, sigma 13, and omega 15.
Sigma 13 has a huge scrap field with several rheinland cruisers floating amidst it.
There is a scrap field in omega 15 which also contains several rheinland fighters and peices of cruisers, which is supposedly left over from an engagement with the IMG - you can read about it in my sig link "Omega 15 - Junker Paradise"
Pirates in Battleships - Jinx - 08-20-2008
digital anvil ( not microsoft ) had capital ships ( pilotable ) planned for freelancer - in the early alpha. - it was one of the features.
they wanted fighters and such craft to be piloted directly - much like now, arcade style. - and the big ships to be piloted via manouvers only ( so an indirect method where the autopilot executes evasive or offensive manouvers ( AI controlled ) and the player would control the turrets. - it was one of the great announcements - but was skipped by microsoft in the end.
so you see - FL had capital ships in mind ( alone with a ton of other stuff )
it is entirely playermadeup that we think tht capital ships are rare. - there is no lore that suggests that these ships a) use all the material we think they do and b) are rarer than fighters. i dont say its better or worse for a healthy server balance, but it is not roleplay based for sure. ( naturally, there are more fighters - but even if every player was flying a battleship .. there d still be more fighters, cause for every player, the program spawn 4 or more fighter NPCs every now and then .... if we considered NPCs to be full members of sirius )
anyway - pointless thing to discuss, we are not going to take battleships away from the factions that have them.....
Pirates in Battleships - Blodo - 08-20-2008
The thing with pirate factions what capital ships is that you need to decide: do the houses know about their bases, but can't really muster the strength to go and sweep them out or the area is too inaccessible for them? Or does the faction in question hide from the established police presence? I mean, most unlawful bases in the houses in Sirius (if not all actually) are hidden in asteroid fields and/or gas clouds so that the government can't sniff them out. But wouldn't you think that sensors would be able to pierce such a natural barrier and pick up a vessel of such immense proportions as a cruiser and upwards would be? It would require but a strong radar to detect an anomaly and be able to track it easily if it is moving, and that's 20th century tech...
But that's considering that we take realism in this game as granted, which we don't... At any rate, since capships are an every day thing in discovery, each faction that uses stuff bigger than gunboats should at the very least own a shipyard. I can't see any faction maintaining a ship of a large size without the ability to roll it into dry dock every once in a while to fix up the damage and resupply.
Pirates in Battleships - Tenacity - 08-20-2008
Quote:But wouldn't you think that sensors would be able to pierce such a natural barrier and pick up a vessel of such immense proportions as a cruiser and upwards would be?
Well, the liberty navy hasnt been able to do anything about the rogue destroyer near the cali gate since it was put in... maybe they're just incompetent =P
But really, I think that pirate groups like that would probably use their capships as mobile operations vessels. The cap serves as a 'carrier' for fighters and/or bombers, and simply keeps "on the move" to avoid running into lawful fleets. That explains how the liberty rogue destroyer there is still around - it probably just keeps moving and stays out of sensor range, serving as a resupply base for rogue fighters.
Pirates in Battleships - mjolnir - 08-20-2008
' Wrote:Ever notice how great of Rpers the houses are?
They have the most resources and the best facilities but restrict them selves to Bombers and fighters.
Is this due to good RP? Or is it due to PVP advantage? Is it due to unlawful capship presence?
The sector may never know.
I personally think if its not PVP driven then its, the inability to wrap ones head around the vastness of resources that planets have to offer.
Mostly it's max 3-man patrols (not counting Liberty - who mostly have some LNS caps around), it doesn't make sense to do a 3 man patrol with a Battleship.
Also yes bombers are war machines... that's why I'm looking forward to the Mjolnir SHF (or Patrol Boat as it should be named), it will be much bigger than a bomber but due to armor/shield and bats/bots it can fend off the usual pirate in GB as well as stop smugglers in large transports due to firepower.
Pirates in Battleships - Eppy - 08-20-2008
I'm half-inclined to agree. I think the Corsairs and Outcasts (Corsairs more, they have a lot more natural resources available) could scrape up a few of their own designs, but nothing like the flotillas we see today. The Dragon Togo is an awesome model, but I don't think there's any way the Dragons could crew the thing, frankly, even if they could pay for it. I shouldn't have to be chasing OoRP Battleships because there shouldn't be any of them in the first place; they're not supposed to be mass-produced. So, the question is: What are we going to do about it?
Pirates in Battleships - chopper - 08-20-2008
Quote:they're not supposed to be mass-produced. So, the question is: What are we going to do about it?
The question is : Who can decide who should have a BS and who shouldn't?
It's unfair in the start, as many people are playing this mod exactly because of the capital ships.
You being one of them, eh Eppy?
Anyhow, any sort of 'rule limitation' against indies is out of the question.
In game, and in RP limitations are in order.
Most factions shouldn't have anything above Gunboat.
-Rogue flying an OC destroyer is just silly.
If you look at the WP-Cali JG lane, you'll see a Rogue destroyer. It's a freaking base for them.
They don't even know how to fly it, so it stands still.
-Hackers in Battleships - silly. Spyglass serves as a radar, not fighting tool.
In RP, it would stand no chance whatsoever against a Lib dread, or even Lib cruiser.
-Dragons in Battleships - now this one is the funniest of all.
They barely have enough people to put them in fighters, why would they risk those lives by putting people on a bloody capital ship?
Fighter jocks with more capital ships then bloody Hessians, 3rd largest unlawful faction in game.
-Hogosha in cruisers - This one wins my heart. I'm tempted to do an OORP attack when I see one pirating in the middle of NT.
Anything above GB is just plain silly.
I agree with the first post.
People just wanted more and more ships at one point, so they got implemented one after another.
I don't think there can ever be a good explanation for a Dragon BS or Dragon cruiser, for example.