+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: The Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Flood (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Thread: To: Victor Steiner (/showthread.php?tid=194236)
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Karst - 08-17-2022
This isn't Flood, and saying "this should be in Flood" is not a valid comment.
If you have nothing to say about a topic, just don't post in it.
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Darius - 08-17-2022
(08-17-2022, 08:36 AM)Relation-Ship Wrote: It's just an old game, nothing we do here matters in the slightest but the fun we have and friends we make - let Darius have his fun - as Reeves said, it ain't canon anyways, read and interact with the posts, or don't, who cares, choice is yours.
On the contrary, I encourage people to yell at me every single time I mess up and do something nonsensical as BAF/BretGov. Be it ooRP through a simple message or inRP like here and here. I've also been trying my best to act as BAF lead, in an unbiased manner, the exact way an admiral would in a situation similar to that currently in Bretonia. As people well know by now, the first step to being defeated is to admit defeat. We will always have these war plans also set about so long as my character will lead the BAF due to their importance (yes, I agree that a single post like that doesn't make sense, but it doesn't need to have a myriad of pages, just a simple presentation with goals in mind that can be freely developed and changed around as time goes by.) For reference, every military, both post and ante WW2 had similar proposals drawn up in case of conflict. Furthermore, as people are so confused by this roleplay started that says we'll invade Rheinland, I am going to clarify it and explain, as there's no other option, what we really do actually plan to do.
Firstly, no, there won't be any war. Bretonia doesn't have the resources, ships and logistical supply vessels to undertake such a tremendous operation. Secondly, the plan isn't even aimed at Rheinland itself first and foremost, it's used as a justification to increase our presence in the Omegas and develop on from there into joint events with RM, anti-Coalition raids, and generally just being more present in the region. Thirdly, as said before, it exists in case of any clash and as a result of this roleplay. I also want to make it clear that we have not, at any point, not followed through with what story says. We are still a very active group, and it may seem that our PvP and RP adventures don't match those of Bretonia in canon, but that'd be just an illusion and confirmation bias based off of in-game logs.
And as a last point, as I also want to address the risen issue of "why does Bretonia not focus on Mollys and Gaians". We tried. Almost nobody came. People are sick and tired of playing small unlawfuls and neither does the lawful side (aka my faction members and other indies, as this was a public poll organized in the BAF| server) want to just sit around and only log to chase the 2 indies that exist for these groups. It doesn't work. It won't work. Those times are forever gone and we can only adapt. If you believe you can gather enough interest, do feel free to PM me either here on forum or on Discord, as I have always been open to collaboration with anyone interesting in doing the effort of sending a message to contact me. (no, unlike some are deceived, I cannot yet read minds.)
Oh, and, by the way. You should read Harold's biography. Unfortunately I haven't yet posted the bios of my other chars, but this one will present enough answers as to why XYZ stuff is being done recently. I'll also include in the comms with him later today.
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Czechmate - 08-17-2022
It's all good, I honestly don't get the obsession with boring direct imports from present day and ww2 armies and navies and calling it quality and the only right roleplay somehow - use your fantasy, experiment - we are in the future - I found your posts trollish too but why should you care as long as you have a good time and they make sense to YOU.
I run the second most successful Molly faction in history for one reason - realising ambition is the enemy of success - we'll never be on tracker - it's a niche - people log or don't and do it for fun, we won't exactly be a steady source of activity for ya nor have the ambition.
But you do put in the effort, keep the lawfuls somewhat alive, on tracker and active - as far as I am Concerned you can do whatever you want with them, the only limit is your fantasy. You can follow what people say or don't, it really doesn't matter in the end as long as you have fun and so do people in your faction, Thund sure seemed to have a good time
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Traxit - 08-17-2022
my 2 cents are that the bretonian playerbase is brainstorming ways to develop the house instead of continuing the stagnating sulk that has been ongoing for two years.
what actually happens depends ultimately on the story devs.
whats with the juvenile poll that accompanies most of your 'analysis' threads anyway?
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Petitioner - 09-13-2022
Someone happened to send me this. I think this is an interesting thread. I'm glad to see that Sombra is still effortpoasting, altho I might question the wisdom in continually providing Bernie Sanders 8½ hour lofi hip-hop n chill filibuster-length text-CPR sessions to a spasming corpse. Full disclosure, ya gurl here has not been keeping up with the Discovery story, politics, metapolitics, et ceteræ. (I'm assuming that Discordianism has been mostly forgotten; I'd urge newfriends to take a gander at the Principia Discordia and be mindful of its influence on this community. Is this thread I see in the sidebar a Jérôme Reuter reference? Tasteful!)
Anyway, some passing thoughts;
Come on, guys, gals, and nonbinary pals. Coooooome on. Poaching wrecks just because you can is probably the oldest, lowest-effort, most time-honored low-hanging fruit of roleplay traditions in Discovery. Someone go yoink a battleship or whatever! Hell, if you try to do a unique ship request or something, if you follow me on Twitter, I'll chip in $5 towards your model-commissioning fees, as long as the end result looks like a crab, which is the coolest animal bar the hyena. The crab is violence incarnate—some day, as Sol explodes and engulfs Terra in uncaring, indifferent nuclear fire, a crab will look up at the sky and snibbidy-snab its claws in defiance! Just don't disappoint me like this. Go poach some wrecks.
This may sound funny coming from one of the folks who signed off on axing the Landwirtrechtbewegung, but the story dev team lineups that I was a part of, as well as our immediate(? it's been years, it's hard to remember timelines too accurately) successors had a policy of not going along with people playing Discovery like a strategy game, and having one faction wipe another off the map wholesale was never something we were in any way amenable to. Sometimes this even went to the point of bending plausibility a little bit, fudging our already deliberately-fuzzy population, troop, and resource figures, as long as we sincerely believed it would help keep the game fun and let folks pursue storylines that wouldn't utterly destroy plots others were hatching. From around the time of 4.86 (prior to my tenure as a storyline developer for the mod) up until around the time I put this game and community behind me, Bretonia was always in a shaky position, and after losing Leeds, Bretonia was intended to be on the verge of collapse, of becoming a failed state. "The day shall be when holy Troy shall fall/And Priam, lord of spears, and Priam's folk." That's not to say we ever intended to get rid of Bretonia; але the notion was rather the converse of the fate of the Gallic monarchy's story arc (which was "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"). This was largely resisted by OFLs who play Discovery the way I play EU4, trying to make their nation swole at the expense of an emotionally engaging storyline. I gather, by this thread, that Bretonia in particular is still playing this way. Read a tragedy or two, folks. Bret players always were the worst offenders, in my eyes.
The long-since-logged-off (happily, too!) folks who wrote the conclusion of the Gallic War intended for Bretonia to suffer far more than it ever did, and I can tell this just from reading this single thread. Dublin? Leeds? Lol. Edinburgh? *pained scoffing* The plan was for Edinburgh to never be reclaimed. The plan was for Bretonia's expansionism in the Omegas to suck them into protracted wars with parties like the Zoners, Coalition, Corsairs, Hessians, etc. The plan was for everyone within three jumps of the Walker to bear even more intense grudges against Bretonia than ever before, because they were to be locked in existential geopolitical battles with Bretonia. Think of all the funny Colonial Britain maymays that could have been had, if not for writing Bretonia like a mary-sue. "Inherent" bias might be overstating it, but it's certainly an endemic bias; with absolutely zero specific knowledge of the situation, I can tell you with certainty that you, Reeves, and your current colleagues in the story department, have been far too soft on Bretonia, if you've wiped the Enclave off the map, nab Carlisle, and provided its playerbase with the bedtime fairytale that they can and should undermine the very existence of other factions. Rid your brain of high-modernist arrogance, reconsider your perceptions of your predecessors, and realize that those who came before you were not all fools, and they built more than you did with less than you now have.
Ok, it is no longer real girltwink hours, it is now real sleepy hours. Best wishes to all of you, and Sombra, come cyber me sometime.
Anyway, some passing thoughts;
(08-16-2022, 05:17 PM)Sombs Wrote:I'm sort of worried that apparently nobody seems to care that huge warship wrecks of Bretonia, Gallia, Mollys and Gaians are floating around in the open all over Bretonia, and for some reason, Bretonia players seem to assume that they are just decoration, while they are wrecks, with military-grade technology inside, just waiting to get looted. I'm actually baffled that despite Bretonia knowing better, Trafalgar Base is back in the hands of the Junkers again, and that the Junkers are very likely attracted to all the technology and weapons that can be extracted from the wrecks all over Bretonia. Not only that, but similar operations by the Mollys and Gaians happen in Dublin and Edinburgh and whoever enters Tau-31 and Leeds, too. Bretonia has to maintain a steady military presence in those systems to absolutely make sure that the wrecks remain untouched until Bretonia can take care of them - after all those ships have planetary bombardement weaponry. If I was Bretonia right now, I would either strike an insanely good deal with the Junkers or make sure that neither them nor the Mollys and Gaians can get their hands on weapons. The Gaians have proven HOW INSANELY DANGEROUS they can become by killing everyone and maybe even EVERYTHING on Gaia, as we don't know whether the modified Carlisle bacterium attacks the local fauna as well (which it likely does, bye bye Gaian Wildlife).
(emphasis mine)
Come on, guys, gals, and nonbinary pals. Coooooome on. Poaching wrecks just because you can is probably the oldest, lowest-effort, most time-honored low-hanging fruit of roleplay traditions in Discovery. Someone go yoink a battleship or whatever! Hell, if you try to do a unique ship request or something, if you follow me on Twitter, I'll chip in $5 towards your model-commissioning fees, as long as the end result looks like a crab, which is the coolest animal bar the hyena. The crab is violence incarnate—some day, as Sol explodes and engulfs Terra in uncaring, indifferent nuclear fire, a crab will look up at the sky and snibbidy-snab its claws in defiance! Just don't disappoint me like this. Go poach some wrecks.
(08-16-2022, 05:17 PM)Sombs Wrote:My big concern here, is that 1iCs seem to think Discovery is a strategy game, where you need to defeat the enemy by destroying their buildings. I know that the destruction of Valravn is a serious goal to at least one person, and that that person argued that it would be an "opportunity" for all involved parties. Let it be said: The destruction of a roleplay platform and the only station of Auxo is not an opportunity, and the only one winning here is whoever hates Auxo to the point that one tries to push for the destruction of not only an NPC base, but THE NPC base of Auxo, the only other being Carrier Orion. That is the kind of mentality that people who play Discovery to make other people log off have. There isn't even the thrill of fighting someone over a blue in there. It's just "I think Bretonia has the power to do that, so we do that now". I wouldn't mind getting proven wrong here. I'm sure I won't.
This may sound funny coming from one of the folks who signed off on axing the Landwirtrechtbewegung, but the story dev team lineups that I was a part of, as well as our immediate(? it's been years, it's hard to remember timelines too accurately) successors had a policy of not going along with people playing Discovery like a strategy game, and having one faction wipe another off the map wholesale was never something we were in any way amenable to. Sometimes this even went to the point of bending plausibility a little bit, fudging our already deliberately-fuzzy population, troop, and resource figures, as long as we sincerely believed it would help keep the game fun and let folks pursue storylines that wouldn't utterly destroy plots others were hatching. From around the time of 4.86 (prior to my tenure as a storyline developer for the mod) up until around the time I put this game and community behind me, Bretonia was always in a shaky position, and after losing Leeds, Bretonia was intended to be on the verge of collapse, of becoming a failed state. "The day shall be when holy Troy shall fall/And Priam, lord of spears, and Priam's folk." That's not to say we ever intended to get rid of Bretonia; але the notion was rather the converse of the fate of the Gallic monarchy's story arc (which was "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"). This was largely resisted by OFLs who play Discovery the way I play EU4, trying to make their nation swole at the expense of an emotionally engaging storyline. I gather, by this thread, that Bretonia in particular is still playing this way. Read a tragedy or two, folks. Bret players always were the worst offenders, in my eyes.
(08-16-2022, 05:53 PM)Reeves Wrote:There are currently only three story developers, including myself. And my stance on post-war Bretonia has been clearly defined as being bleak and dire, I've not minced my words on it either. At some point I'd like to know who these story developers with an inherent bias to Bretonia are, beyond just vague mentions of them. It's becoming increasingly odd especially after the fact that everyone responsible for writing the conclusion of the Gallic war is now no longer part of the story team.
The long-since-logged-off (happily, too!) folks who wrote the conclusion of the Gallic War intended for Bretonia to suffer far more than it ever did, and I can tell this just from reading this single thread. Dublin? Leeds? Lol. Edinburgh? *pained scoffing* The plan was for Edinburgh to never be reclaimed. The plan was for Bretonia's expansionism in the Omegas to suck them into protracted wars with parties like the Zoners, Coalition, Corsairs, Hessians, etc. The plan was for everyone within three jumps of the Walker to bear even more intense grudges against Bretonia than ever before, because they were to be locked in existential geopolitical battles with Bretonia. Think of all the funny Colonial Britain maymays that could have been had, if not for writing Bretonia like a mary-sue. "Inherent" bias might be overstating it, but it's certainly an endemic bias; with absolutely zero specific knowledge of the situation, I can tell you with certainty that you, Reeves, and your current colleagues in the story department, have been far too soft on Bretonia, if you've wiped the Enclave off the map, nab Carlisle, and provided its playerbase with the bedtime fairytale that they can and should undermine the very existence of other factions. Rid your brain of high-modernist arrogance, reconsider your perceptions of your predecessors, and realize that those who came before you were not all fools, and they built more than you did with less than you now have.
Ok, it is no longer real girltwink hours, it is now real sleepy hours. Best wishes to all of you, and Sombra, come cyber me sometime.
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Darius - 09-13-2022
Get out of here with this nonsense. Talk to the people and you'll understand what we, the current Bretonian players, think. Until someone does so without text walls about 2010s, you'll be taken serious.
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Reeves - 09-13-2022
(09-13-2022, 08:58 AM)Petitioner Wrote: I can tell you with certainty that you, Reeves, and your current colleagues in the story department, have been far too soft on Bretonia, if you've wiped the Enclave off the map, nab Carlisle, and provided its playerbase with the bedtime fairytale
I'll have to thoroughly disagree with you on this count considering the scope of the story that is ongoing and that has been cemented, drafted and finalized in advance pending implementation down the line. Story does not have an optimistic view of Bretonia, rather the contrary. I can share some of these details here but not the entirety for reasons which should be easily understandable. But in any event, I'm going to state the following:
1) Bretonia is reeling from the loss of Leeds and has no way to truly offset this absolute loss of its backbone for industry.
2) Bretonia has spurned Liberty and this will entail consequences in the future, internationally and domestically.
3) Dublin is a hairline fracture away from becoming fully independent and posing an immense burden on the continued security of the House.
4) The removal of the Enclave predates my direct participation in heading the story department. When I was appointed as a story developer I was heavily involved in establishing the current Royalist faction, which is a successor of the Enclave and the more original Royalist Gallia. This seems contrary to your allegation that I'm somehow, inexplicably and perhaps even involuntarily involved in the systematic removal or declawing of Bretonia's adversaries. The opposite is true, and the developments I have made through my direct participation in the process of development reflect exactly that. You will find it impossible to claim the contrary considering these facts.
5) Carlisle has not been portrayed by story as the "fix all problems" button in Bretonia, quite the contrary. This planet will be a drain on resources and will suffer from hasty infrastructure development and a logistical nightmare.
6) In correlation with point 2, Bretonia now has no partner willing to substantially assist with substituting its vacant military industrial complex. Should a situation arise where Bretonia must build more ships to reinforce depleted numbers on account of attrition, they will have no means to do so in any manner that will prove satisfactory for any extended campaign.
7) High-minded arrogance is a bold claim considering the colorful reputation of some of my predecessors, namely their whimsical propensity for sexual harassment and utter mismanagement of the mod's development. This is simply a fact, and you will be told this much by anyone who has had to grapple with developing the mod after the departure of such people. The simple fact is that the current team primarily grapples with having to undo years of neglect, and this is no easy task. You need only make a cursory comparison between the mod then and now to understand the full extent of how utterly strangled the direction was under the guidance of former leadership.
8) Bretonia's current desperation will give rise to hasty policymaking and major projects which will feed into the established premise of corruption, nepotism and bureaucratic incompetence, the consequences of which will only serve to bolster the ranks of criminals that have varied reasons for opposing state policy or simply the state itself.
9) Bretonia will have to grapple with illegal salvaging, and with its forces already suffering from the aftermath of the Gallic war, this will be a far more exhaustive commitment than people might expect it to be. They will also be forced to focus on securing the capital, Cambridge and Newcastle, leading to lapses in security within systems like Dublin and Poole.
10) Edinburgh is already the epicenter of a lapse in Bretonia's ability to secure adjacent territory. The Gaians secured a victory there.
11) Aland was destroyed and no benefit was gleaned. In hindsight, Bretonia has now needlessly created a source of conflict between itself, the IMG and the ALG. And this bodes ill considering these companies could serve to greatly assist it, but likely will not do so as a consequence of the fact. If reconsideration is at all possible, it will come at a great cost to Bretonia and inflict a grievous wound to its pride. It is likely Bretonia will be forced to deal with this fact as a direct consequence of eroding its subservient, but still beneficial partnership with Liberty. And with Liberty's reputation as a domineering Great House being well established, this is not the end of the pressures Liberty will impose on Bretonia going forward. Far from it.
In closing, I will state that I appreciate that you highlighted aspects for our consideration and were largely constructive in your attempt to do so. All the same, please consider what I have stated above and be mindful that the current team had no role in many of the things players consider to be, at least historically, a huge lapse of judgment regarding the execution of the Bretonian storyline. We cannot simply retcon these developments, but we can develop them in ways that reflect the House's bleak situation and we will do exactly that.
Edit: "The long-since-logged-off (happily, too!) folks who wrote the conclusion of the Gallic War intended for Bretonia to suffer far more than it ever did, and I can tell this just from reading this single thread." - From your lengthy post above.
I cannot help but notice that this is an admission of your role and one of the previous team's roles in the planning and implementation of the conclusion to the Gallic war. One of the biggest items on the list of things the community takes issue with in context of the mod's story. It seems ironic then that you would try to paint the current team as being soft on Bretonia, when it is, by matter of self admission, your own fault for the state of the House immediately after the war. We were simply the less than fortunate individuals who inherited the mess the team you worked with created for its successors.
1) Bretonia is reeling from the loss of Leeds and has no way to truly offset this absolute loss of its backbone for industry.
2) Bretonia has spurned Liberty and this will entail consequences in the future, internationally and domestically.
3) Dublin is a hairline fracture away from becoming fully independent and posing an immense burden on the continued security of the House.
4) The removal of the Enclave predates my direct participation in heading the story department. When I was appointed as a story developer I was heavily involved in establishing the current Royalist faction, which is a successor of the Enclave and the more original Royalist Gallia. This seems contrary to your allegation that I'm somehow, inexplicably and perhaps even involuntarily involved in the systematic removal or declawing of Bretonia's adversaries. The opposite is true, and the developments I have made through my direct participation in the process of development reflect exactly that. You will find it impossible to claim the contrary considering these facts.
5) Carlisle has not been portrayed by story as the "fix all problems" button in Bretonia, quite the contrary. This planet will be a drain on resources and will suffer from hasty infrastructure development and a logistical nightmare.
6) In correlation with point 2, Bretonia now has no partner willing to substantially assist with substituting its vacant military industrial complex. Should a situation arise where Bretonia must build more ships to reinforce depleted numbers on account of attrition, they will have no means to do so in any manner that will prove satisfactory for any extended campaign.
7) High-minded arrogance is a bold claim considering the colorful reputation of some of my predecessors, namely their whimsical propensity for sexual harassment and utter mismanagement of the mod's development. This is simply a fact, and you will be told this much by anyone who has had to grapple with developing the mod after the departure of such people. The simple fact is that the current team primarily grapples with having to undo years of neglect, and this is no easy task. You need only make a cursory comparison between the mod then and now to understand the full extent of how utterly strangled the direction was under the guidance of former leadership.
8) Bretonia's current desperation will give rise to hasty policymaking and major projects which will feed into the established premise of corruption, nepotism and bureaucratic incompetence, the consequences of which will only serve to bolster the ranks of criminals that have varied reasons for opposing state policy or simply the state itself.
9) Bretonia will have to grapple with illegal salvaging, and with its forces already suffering from the aftermath of the Gallic war, this will be a far more exhaustive commitment than people might expect it to be. They will also be forced to focus on securing the capital, Cambridge and Newcastle, leading to lapses in security within systems like Dublin and Poole.
10) Edinburgh is already the epicenter of a lapse in Bretonia's ability to secure adjacent territory. The Gaians secured a victory there.
11) Aland was destroyed and no benefit was gleaned. In hindsight, Bretonia has now needlessly created a source of conflict between itself, the IMG and the ALG. And this bodes ill considering these companies could serve to greatly assist it, but likely will not do so as a consequence of the fact. If reconsideration is at all possible, it will come at a great cost to Bretonia and inflict a grievous wound to its pride. It is likely Bretonia will be forced to deal with this fact as a direct consequence of eroding its subservient, but still beneficial partnership with Liberty. And with Liberty's reputation as a domineering Great House being well established, this is not the end of the pressures Liberty will impose on Bretonia going forward. Far from it.
In closing, I will state that I appreciate that you highlighted aspects for our consideration and were largely constructive in your attempt to do so. All the same, please consider what I have stated above and be mindful that the current team had no role in many of the things players consider to be, at least historically, a huge lapse of judgment regarding the execution of the Bretonian storyline. We cannot simply retcon these developments, but we can develop them in ways that reflect the House's bleak situation and we will do exactly that.
Edit: "The long-since-logged-off (happily, too!) folks who wrote the conclusion of the Gallic War intended for Bretonia to suffer far more than it ever did, and I can tell this just from reading this single thread." - From your lengthy post above.
I cannot help but notice that this is an admission of your role and one of the previous team's roles in the planning and implementation of the conclusion to the Gallic war. One of the biggest items on the list of things the community takes issue with in context of the mod's story. It seems ironic then that you would try to paint the current team as being soft on Bretonia, when it is, by matter of self admission, your own fault for the state of the House immediately after the war. We were simply the less than fortunate individuals who inherited the mess the team you worked with created for its successors.
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Darkstar_Spectre - 09-13-2022
(09-13-2022, 09:20 AM)DariusCiprian Wrote: Get out of here with this nonsense. Talk to the people and you'll understand what we, the current Bretonian players, think. Until someone does so without text walls about 2010s, you'll be taken serious.
>discovery players
>THINKING
X to doubt.
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Darius - 09-13-2022
Thank you for the doubts, but I assure people that we remain open to communication. But just communication. Not feedback screeching.
RE: To: Victor Steiner - Victor Steiner - 09-20-2022
(09-13-2022, 08:58 AM)Petitioner Wrote: 11) Aland was destroyed and no benefit was gleaned. In hindsight, Bretonia has now needlessly created a source of conflict between itself, the IMG and the ALG. And this bodes ill considering these companies could serve to greatly assist it, but likely will not do so as a consequence of the fact. If reconsideration is at all possible, it will come at a great cost to Bretonia and inflict a grievous wound to its pride. It is likely Bretonia will be forced to deal with this fact as a direct consequence of eroding its subservient, but still beneficial partnership with Liberty. And with Liberty's reputation as a domineering Great House being well established, this is not the end of the pressures Liberty will impose on Bretonia going forward. Far from it.
I can assure you that the at the time, the decision to take Aland was fully expected to cause conflict later on, but from an inrp standpoint it was at very least implied that this was the only 'real' course of action to follow. What we did not expect was the sheer level of oorp frustration that it caused, that combined with many developers, mods and admins being Bretonian players gave rise to calls such as 'Devtonia' and the like. I do not believe we were 'mislead', we were simply running out of options and took what we believed to be the most expedient solution to problems.
Which is exactly your point (I believe), we took the most expedient option, not the most effective option and that has caused problems. Problems, I should like to say, that are not wholly unjustified or unreasonable. I also maintain the position that during the latter stages of the war, our options were gradually shrunk to (perhaps) unnecessary levels. Nevertheless we have what we have and we can work with it. I for one look forward to seeing what kind of solutions Bretonia can conjure up with limited resources.
Also, ALG declared war on us, much to our confusion (I should point out that Rheinland was also rather confused at the time as well).