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+--- Thread: Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=98709)
RE: Zoners - Lythrilux - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 07:12 AM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: I suggest we unwind The council, delete redemption, give rous to the TAZ and then leave the zoner caps alone.
I hear your name too much here, looks like you dont like zoners very much, so why don't we sit for a moment and think about it one more time, and please don't be cynical or sarcastic , I hate taking the piss , Cheers.
Lets remove planets whilst we're at it, factions don't need those.
RE: Zoners - GTB - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 07:12 AM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: I suggest we unwind The council, delete redemption, give rous to the TAZ and then leave the zoner caps alone.
I hear your name too much here, looks like you dont like zoners very much, so why don't we sit for a moment and think about it one more time, and please don't be cynical or sarcastic , I hate taking the piss , Cheers.
I don't hate Zoners, and what I said stands. So tell me, what's the sense in only allowing official TAGGED faction members to fly cap ships, discriminating against people who choose to play indy char on the server? What do you hope to gain from it, apart from piss people off?
If you want to talk about people not liking something, well the amount of moaning and crying I read on these forums about "indy" players, has lead me to be believe there is a very negative attitude towards them in general. I've even seen it on the server happen from official faction members at times. WTF does it matter if your an indy faction player, or one that carries a tag?
RE: Zoners - Duvelske - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 11:23 AM)GTB Wrote: I don't hate Zoners, and what I said stands. So tell me, what's the sense in only allowing official TAGGED faction members to fly cap ships, discriminating against people who choose to play indy char on the server? What do you hope to gain from it, apart from piss people off?
The point with these ships are that inRP Zoner caps are not tolerated by the houses. Also you see too many indy Zoners bs ships used as jumpships. Reason for it that they are so called 'neutral' while the official factions suffer from this as they have more and more disadvantages over an indy player who just shoots or jump away what he wants. Same goes with barges which are not Faction tagged. the so called indy barges.
RE: Zoners - GTB - 06-23-2013
I have to laugh at you saying that about Zoner Indy char. Because all they are doing really, is taking advantage of the Zoner REP in relationship with other factions. Something the official Zoner tagged players have been doing themselves long enough, why the zoners have the most player-bases on the server always going untouched. Honestly, it just looks as though the official Zoner tagged factions doesn't like these new Indy zoner groups popping up for some reason. So the idea is to limit them not using cap ships, probably in the hope they'll join a tagged zoner faction to fly them, but have to abide by their clan rules.
So what if a zoner indy char takes a cap ship in house space and then gets attacked. Thought the idea on server was to create some action taking place at times, instead of things always being quiet with nothing much happening (zoners are a mixed bag of people anyway, read their faction description). The problem I'm seeing with Zoners like you, it's been a problem for too long. A few of you don't like the Indy Zoner factions rocking your peacefulness, mainly because of your player-bases owned and the threat it might put them under. You want a quiet life all the time as a Zoner.
RE: Zoners - Eduard - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 11:39 AM)GTB Wrote: I have to laugh at you saying that about Zoner Indy char. Because all they're doing really, is taking advantage of the Zoner REP in relationship with other factions. Something the official Zoner tagged players have been doing themselves for long enough, why the zoners have the most player bases on the server going untouched.
Honestly, it just looks as though the official Zoner tagged factions doesn't like these new Indy zoner factions popping up for some odd reason. So the idea is to limit them to not using cap ships, probably in the hope they'll join a tagged zoner group to fly them.
Actually it's to prevent ooRP stuff.
Some indies are good, but other indies can't simply be trusted with caps as they will ruin stuff. Same goes for official factions and unnofficial alike, but they have provided with a ranking system to avoid such stuff.
Read the zoner lore, would you think it's normal to see a capspam of like 5-6 nephilims? Nephilims, which are gargantuan beasts in the form of a ship which basically appeared over the night for a very very decentralized organization that the day before didn't had the resources to fund or construct such beasts
RE: Zoners - Anaximander - 06-23-2013
I'd rather just have cohesive lore and a somewhat plausible story regarding how Zoners got them caps; and have them come at a price (i.e. you can't stay neutral to all when you build a massive warfleet in less than 20 years - people will notice and target you, it's inevitable).
SRP's and official factions are not a guarantee of anything - official faction players get sanctioned too (right, Duv?); it's not like they are superior by default, just because they display some tag.
Rather make lore and rules/ID so that there's no confusion, provide players with a decent framework that will serve as a guideline; that's all that needs done.
RE: Zoners - Duvelske - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 11:45 AM)Anaximander Wrote: SRP's and official factions are not a guarantee of anything - official faction players get sanctioned too (right, Duv?); it's not like they are superior by default, just because they display some tag.
Its not about sanctions, but its like this:
earlier today i have seen some indy AI shooting some zoner.. zoner shoots back, [AI] assists to defend the indy AI. its too easy to abuse. Ak to workaround, same goes with jumping a tagged ships to house space. Look on the forums. Comm posts are 90% about the tagged ships. ak official factions. I havent seen comm posts about 2 or 3 different nephy i did cross within liberty just 'escorting' some trader.. yeah i know what you think it is stupid to do that with a bs, but there are people doing it so it seems.
Edit:
and you know why? because people can easy rename their chars. If they do something on an untagged ship no one points a finger at you why did you do that. But if you use a TAGGED ship then people do and you have to explain.
RE: Zoners - Hell Hunter - 06-23-2013
Correction
Little indy AI shot station to raise shield
Big angry zoner got angry and shot little AI - Then the [AI] ai's assisted.
RE: Zoners - Anaximander - 06-23-2013
I totally agree that it's a mess.
However comms posts are for the most part driven by routine and are generally not very interesting - 90% of the posts in the comms threads could be handled in-game and are sort of redundant. Personally, I don't think we need any more of those, really. I mean mostly it's "Can I have that?" followed by a "Ok" or "Can I dock there?"/"Ok" and so on - easily handled in-game.
People do stupid things with their ships, no doubt, but that's due to the giant hole in lore, the extremely odd notion of total neutrality, and the magical appearance of 2 lines of cruisers and 2 lines of battleships - people will use the toys they are given as much as lore and rules allow them to (that's like a natural law of gaming), and in the case of Zoners rules (ID) and lore/diplomacy is so hollowed out that anything goes.
^Fix that, and you fix Zoners once and for all. Give Zoner players guidelines and reasonable lore/diplomacy to shape their characters after, and we will have made huge progress. I think the Zoner community should have addressed it a long time ago, rather than go "it's all the nubs that don't have a clue; we however are above that, so let's just bar access for everyone else and things will be fine", when the reality is that official Zoner factions still got their ships out of thin air with little to no consequence. You aren't patching the hole; you are just diverting attention away from it for a short while.
P.S. I don't mind that Zoners are unique or powerful; I just want lore, diplomacy, ID and shipline to at least match one another to some extent. It's a bloated faction, far too much stuff has been crammed into it without any logical consequences. Whoever did so probably did it out of love for Zoners; but in reality it causes a lot more harm than good - for Zoners as well.
RE: Zoners - GTB - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 11:58 AM)Hell Hunter Wrote: Correction
Little indy AI shot station to raise shield
Big angry zoner got angry and shot little AI - Then the [AI] ai's assisted.
LOL, did the little AI's win.
(06-23-2013, 11:45 AM)Anaximander Wrote: I'd rather just have cohesive lore and a somewhat plausible story regarding how Zoners got them caps; and have them come at a price (i.e. you can't stay neutral to all when you build a massive war-fleet in less than 20 years - people will notice and target you, it's inevitable).
It's a good point about the zoners having a good line-up of warships, read it brought up before and quite conflicting having arguably the best cap ship in the game. Easy solution if you want to force all zoners to play peaceful RP, then stop all zoners using caps and remove them "completely from their use", and not just indies.