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+--- Thread: Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? (/showthread.php?tid=2880)
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - Eppy - 06-07-2007
Close enough.
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - Dab - 06-07-2007
Archelon, no matter how fast and agile CDs are, a larger ship has a small chance of hitting a smaller ship with one. Here again, stalemate. Smaller ship must shield run everytime he engages, big ship can't stop him. Neither does damage, bye bye any pvp.
Also, your entire 'sarcasm' section about people reporting shield running because a guy is running.. That was written for the pure fact of argument, and that was it. You know full well there is a difference between shield running and running. Shield running means you come back. Running means your out of the fight permanently.
Allowing shield running would result in stalemates and 3-hour 1v1 capship fights, if they ever finished at all. This was seen plenty during the first SA vs AW war. SA would be using massive amount of capships. They'd shield run at every available chance, and because there were 3-4 others BSs shooting us, we couldn't stop to CD the guy 18 hundred times. Stalemate here, fights never ended, or ended after 3 hours.
Shield running is a tactic, but when overused and abused is causes nothing but disruption of gameplay. This abuse is what caused admins to declare it a rule violation from now on.
BTW, F1ing during JH/JG doesn't slingshot you to far side of a system. Its random for every JH, but always the same end point for a specific JH. One JH might take you 20km from where your supposed to come out, another might take you 40km off the map.. Its random. I advise you don't use it.. Several will land you in a sun, or other dangerous place, or 30 minutes from any TL/JG/JH.
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - PARAKEET - 06-07-2007
Engine kill , Shield running should both be allowed. They are effective but when overused not so effective anymore. F1ing in trade lanes does some pretty bad things as well like getting thrown into a planet or the sun. F1ing in a JH must be worse I assume.
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - Archelon - 06-07-2007
' Wrote:Archelon, no matter how fast and agile CDs are, a larger ship has a small chance of hitting a smaller ship with one. Here again, stalemate. Smaller ship must shield run everytime he engages, big ship can't stop him. Neither does damage, bye bye any pvp.
First and foremost, this is NOT the PVP server. Thus, this argument is not valid.
Quote:Also, your entire 'sarcasm' section about people reporting shield running because a guy is running.. That was written for the pure fact of argument, and that was it. You know full well there is a difference between shield running and running. Shield running means you come back. Running means your out of the fight permanently.
Interesting since I was accused of shield running today while I attempted to escape (end the conflict). I've also been accused of it on other occasions. How can you tell the difference? The difference is when you come back to re-engage. So until somebody attempts to re-engage, don't threaten with screens. This spoils the RP experience. Anytime somebody calls me a shield runner when I'm attempting to escape, I call "fight's off". I don't play that way and would like the courtesy of the benefit of the doubt. If I turn and come back for you, then call me on it.
On the same note, if I am attempting to escape and my shields are down and you continue pursuit, I have the right to defend myself.
Quote:Allowing shield running would result in stalemates and 3-hour 1v1 capship fights, if they ever finished at all. This was seen plenty during the first SA vs AW war. SA would be using massive amount of capships. They'd shield run at every available chance, and because there were 3-4 others BSs shooting us, we couldn't stop to CD the guy 18 hundred times. Stalemate here, fights never ended, or ended after 3 hours.
Your point here is capital ship vs fighter. Yes, that's part of RP (not PVP). A capital ship in RP would have a difficult time of hitting a fighter and a fighter would not be expected to kill a capital ship alone. Its RP. Bottom line - this rule belongs on the PVP server, not on the RP server.
Quote:Shield running is a tactic, but when overused and abused is causes nothing but disruption of gameplay. This abuse is what caused admins to declare it a rule violation from now on.
BTW, F1ing during JH/JG doesn't slingshot you to far side of a system. Its random for every JH, but always the same end point for a specific JH. One JH might take you 20km from where your supposed to come out, another might take you 40km off the map.. Its random. I advise you don't use it.. Several will land you in a sun, or other dangerous place, or 30 minutes from any TL/JG/JH.
No disruption in gameplay. Perhaps a better rule would be that if the fight lasts longer than X amount of time, the fight is a draw and everyone must discontinue combat.
For the F1 in jumpholes/jumpgates - doesn't matter where it sends you. If you are a trader being chased by a pirate or a pirate being chased by the military, you are exploiting a flaw in the game code and thus cheating. I've been that pirate chasing a trader that did this very thing. No - no screens - I'm sick of all this screen capture stuff. If anything disrupts gameplay its when somebody cries foul and starts taking screens. Taking screens of everything can also be abuse.
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - me_b_kevin - 06-07-2007
i apparently misunderstood what shield running is.
i'm confused as to why there are sooo many restrictions to fighting.
no running to let your shields regen?
you can't dock if in a battle?
what's next?
if you keep going this route it'll get down to where when shot at the two must line up and not fly and just aim at each other a shoot until one explodes.
it's almost as if people don't want realism on a roleplaying server.
once again i've not PVP'd any since i'm so new to this mod but dang i'd rather have it realistic rather than fair
from just reading it almost sounds like either shields need to be decreased in power or guns need to be increased in power. would that help?
what's the range on BS weapons? would increasing the range on them help? like cruise missles or long range guns? so you could start blasting ships before they even get to you?
maybe i need a better explanation as to why these rules are being made.
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - Archelon - 06-07-2007
Dreygon,
From what I've read and understand, this rule came about as a result of fighters vs capital ships. A fighter being too fast to hit by a capital ship and a capital ship being too strong for a fighter to destroy. Basically, the fighter became somewhat of a mosquito problem for the capital ship since the fighter would loose shields quickly, then run out of gun range to regen them and come back.
Unfortunately, this rule crept its way into ALL fights, including fighter vs fighter. As I've mentioned above, this rule is more applicable to the PVP server rather than the RP server. Yes PVP occurs on the RP server, but the primary objective on the RP server is to RP, not PVP. That's why I've suggested we drop this rule in favor of an alternative rule - specifically a time limit on a PVP match. If you are fighting for 30 minutes and getting nowhere, time to call it a draw and go your own ways. Only on a PVP server is the death of one fighter the objective. In a RP environment, there are times when there will be no winner.
Also, all too often a retreating foe (attempting to escape) is misinterpreted as shield running and faces a potential snapshot sent to the admins followed by possible sanctions.
Please, lets give this rule to the PVP server and get a true RP rule for this.
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - BestFlyerHere - 06-08-2007
Archelon, the term initiated long before you were here. I believe it was from the issue mentioned above, and from bomber vs. BS. If a bomber pilot is good enough, he can kill a BS by himself. Therefore, a BS pilot gets scared, and runs. He then realizes "Well, gosh, I have a huge shield." He then turns around and fights. The bomber has a class 10 fighter shield. Slightly unfair, don't you think?
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - BULLDOGNK - 06-08-2007
' Wrote:i apparently misunderstood what shield running is.
once again i've not PVP'd any since i'm so new to this mod but dang i'd rather have it realistic rather than fair
If you want to PvP go to the PvP Server i can get a few players on there and they will hunt you all over space:)
Cheers
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - Archelon - 06-08-2007
' Wrote:Archelon, the term initiated long before you were here. I believe it was from the issue mentioned above, and from bomber vs. BS. If a bomber pilot is good enough, he can kill a BS by himself. Therefore, a BS pilot gets scared, and runs. He then realizes "Well, gosh, I have a huge shield." He then turns around and fights. The bomber has a class 10 fighter shield. Slightly unfair, don't you think?
No - I don't think it is unfair. You need to be aware of who you are going to take on in a battle. And a bomber isn't a fighter - its a bomber and would expect to be able to do more damage. WHAT you fly is not as important as HOW you fly. And if you are not smart enough to leave the battle you are in (when you are on the losing end) why are you fighting? Suicidal? Once again, this is an RP server, not a PVP server.
The issue you speak about here would be more of a balance issue that Igiss could adjust in the next mod upgrade. I suggest you take your point here to the balance discussion.
Is the engine kill from cruise rule required? - Ant - 06-12-2007
Looks like there's a small majority think the rule is not required.
The community is obviously a bit polarised on this though.
I guess it can't be suggested that the rule be removed without a clear majority.
Happy running.:)