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+--- Thread: Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing (/showthread.php?tid=8459)
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - Cap_Death - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:whats wrong with decurion ? so, imagine light fighters, for example starblazer as you say, with agility lower as eagle. decurion has only little better agility as titan, which is in the end lower as most of VHF have.
I completely agree with Globalo on his view of the Decurion. I tried all three Arwing, Decurion and Tiger Shark to make a LF wing for the OPG and I found that the Decurion is absolutely hopeless in combat.
Its side to side strafe is equal to that of the Titan VHF and only its turn rate and up/down strafe is faster, all in all its just a Titan with half its armour stripped off and a big sign saying "Easy Kill" painted on its rear.
And the Arwing? Bugged. All I need to say on that point. It would be great if we could start using the Tiger Sharks again, I personally don't think it was that bad to have debs on them since they are civi weapons and in an RP sense as corsairs we do 'sometimes' get shipments from traders to Crete bringing food, weapons, water, etc. So couldn't those guns be classified under the weapons segment?
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - mjolnir - 05-29-2008
Quote:Look... Only reason we used Slipstreams cause we formed assassination squad within RoS and we wanted some "exotic" but still well within RP fighter... We have 4 Slipstreams (I think LH could manage to produce 4 Slipstreams considering Outcast feed them with ALL kind of guns) and 1 Loki (That is Joe's ship he has it for ages and he heavily RP-ed it ) And that is it! We don't have fleet of Slipstreams... We have only 4!!!
How many Corsairs flying LFs are there around? I count around 6... is that a fleet?
In the two fights where poor Outcasts were "LF-whored" it was 7 Titans and 4 LFs.. and 6 Titans and 4 LFs. And even if it was 10 LFs how should it matter?
Quote:And as far as I am concerned... I don't like Slipstream. I hate it despite 6 guns... I found out that Outcasts don't have decent lvl 7 gun.... but I see no problem 4 people flying Slipstreams among 20 or more RoS members...
Which is why they use civilian debilitators made by allied Lane Hackers.
Quote:Now my advice to you is to talk with admins and if they approve it then ...GO FOR IT... I see they already approved it.... then... no more stories ... Just fly that LF and enjoy the game!!!
I'm trying to... yet I'm getting sanctioned for things that are not in the rules...
Quote:EDIT: Mjolnir can you tell me please who have something against Corsairs using Tigersharks? There was like dozen threads about this topic and i couldn't manage to find out who started this whole thing.... I know somebody objected but I can't remember who...
1st there was a lot of talk about LF-whoring
2nd somebody wrote a violation report
3rd some people that I won't name, said in the dozens of threads that "you should not use Tigershark but Griffin is ok" :$
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' Wrote:As I remember it you are NOT a part of any corsair faction, have no character bio whatsoever for your Corsair and still have a non Corsair ship, based on an arms deal made by a faction you're not part of. Kettle and Pot here much?
First, no I'm not part of any faction.. why should it matter?
This is not factionlancer as Jinx often says. I was invited to TBH a few times, said I could join in 5 mins at one point. I declined because I don't have time to be active regularly in more than 3 factions. I follow same rules and same RP as an independent. Maybe I also didn't wanted to be sanctioned for breaking rules again.. yes that rule that "nobody follows", well I do.
Second, you are still not getting that point of Tigershark was to use something exactly the same as an corsair ship which is bugged. Basically you should read "Arwing" when you scan those Corsair Tigersharks.
Third, I got an Arwing the second I got to know it was "against the rules"
Fourth, no I don't have a bio written down for my corsair character, I believe that in-game RP is much more important than anything written on the forums. I do not particulary like writing long stories either even though I'm not so bad at it (read: LH recruitment).
Quote:As it stands right now, the Scimmy offers no advantage whatsoever over the Sabre. Much like the Decurion, fewer guns (and not so effective ones at that) less armour and a negligable difference in manueverability.
It IS more agile than the Sabre, as agile as half of the LFs on the server, and way more agile than the Titan. It is half the size of a Sabre as well.
Decurion on the other hand is slower than the Outcast VHF which it is supposed to face.
' Wrote:So... On that note. Did you at ANY POINT see me critisise the TBH for using the Tigershark, other than the numbers it was used in? I think you could search through all my posts and find one vague refference to 'bending rp slightly' for it.
You did start a whole thread about "getting the best to win" and not sticking to your faction guns/ships.
My whole problem with this is the "you are just doing anything to win, while we are all clean".
For my part I'm perfectly happy with Outcasts in Slipstreams/Lokis, Corsairs in Tigersharks with civilian guns, Xenos in Taidan bombers, Hessians/Rogues using a few Krakens on their ships. The opportunity to mix your loadout/ship within bonds of RP is one of the best things in Freelancer for me.
The points where I object here is that if your loadout and ship is completely from a different faction (ex. Liberty Rogue in Sabre with full Krakens) then you don't really belong to the faction you have ID of. Call it "at least something from your own" rule.
As Global said this thread is useless now, Corsairs can't use Tigersharks without beeing sanctioned, so they will use Arwings.
EDIT: On a side note as some said in one of these threads: " Wait, LFs are actually good at the only thing they are supposed to be good at? - killing VHFs/bombers"
Yet there are those "LF-whoring" and "you made them something they are not supposed to be" comments. As you both found out by yourself LFs are difficult to use and far from "uber". - two of the best LFs in game with decent pilots being beaten by two slowest VHFs in game (Titan) with comparable pilots.
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - Athenian - 05-29-2008
So " a Border Worlds ship" rather than a "a ship used in the Border Worlds" are different things, a company of some sorts that mainly supplies to outcasts?
Quote:It might be an idea in future mods to create a comprehensive list of ships available to each faction i.d.
I'm not talking about the official factions, but rather the in-game factions and i.d.'s. Common sense prevails as always but the past has shown that one person's assumptions based on common sense notions of what's right can cause trouble.
Maybe I'm not being clear here. I'm not talking about the information available on the forum, but maybe something on the infocards that would say something like "this ship is permitted to ...etc" based on an agreed list of permitted ships determined in the forums for each i.d. That might at least stop new players from breaching the rules so blatantly.
I still maintain, if it says civilian, anyone can use it , unless a faction alternative exists. If the decurion sucks that bad, then I think the corsairs should be allowed use it. Anything that encourages the scale of the game to move towards smaller rather than larger ships is to be welcomed.
"LF" whoring - what's wrong with using a lot of LF's? - the fights are more intense and fun and they are certinaly nowhere near as good as bombers or fighters, UNLESS you get a few lf's together. I've seen xenos swarma GB in blazers and destroy it. Isn't that what we want to see, greater co-operation by players? LF's should be the bread and butter of the game.
I like the idea of variety in equipment and agree with Mjolnir on this. But mixing weapons is open to abuse. I'd wonder at what point it becomes abuse. If I am a Lib rogue with krakens, how many do I have to be using before it's abuse. 1? 2? 3? 4? It's hard to write a hard and fast rule to cover things like this.
That's definitely more than two cents.
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - skoko - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:How many Corsairs flying LFs are there around? I count around 6... is that a fleet?
In the two fights where poor Outcasts were "LF-whored" it was 7 Titans and 4 LFs.. and 6 Titans and 4 LFs. And even if it was 10 LFs how should it matter?
Which is why they use civilian debilitators made by allied Lane Hackers.
I'm trying to... yet I'm getting sanctioned for things that are not in the rules...
1st there was a lot of talk about LF-whoring
2nd somebody wrote a violation report
3rd some people that I won't name, said in the dozens of threads that "you should not use Tigershark but Griffin is ok" :$
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1.You misunderstood me ...we have 4 Slipstreams... And that isn't fleet or rule in RoS... like we will have fleet and totally disregard our Scimi.... I didn't mean to say Corsairs have fleet of LF ... but that we don't have more than 4 Slippys in RoS
2. Yus I was LF-whored.. but i don't mind... same as I Torp whored someone... or someone is capwhored... That is game... i enjoy it... I have indy Xeno and LR chars and I get cap whored constantly .... It is a game and that is how things work here (I was killed on my Ghound by Lib BC today.. i didn't want to run)
3. I believe you that someone reported ... that is waay to much.. that kind of things have to be solved over Skype between us.. not with violation reports
Skoko
P.S. I dunno why all this started and by who... but it is time to end this... Again, I am sorry you can't fly LF you want and could fly... I hope Decurion will rock in 4,85 and we all will be happy!
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - sovereign - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:1.You misunderstood me ...we have 4 Slipstreams... And that isn't fleet or rule in RoS... like we will have fleet and totally disregard our Scimi.... I didn't mean to say Corsairs have fleet of LF ... but that we don't have more than 4 Slippys in RoS
2. Yus I was LF-whored.. but i don't mind... same as I Torp whored someone... or someone is capwhored... That is game... i enjoy it... I have indy Xeno and LR chars and I get cap whored constantly .... It is a game and that is how things work here (I was killed on my Ghound by Lib BC today.. i didn't want to run)
3. I believe you that someone reported ... that is waay to much.. that kind of things have to be solved over Skype between us.. not with violation reports
Skoko
P.S. I dunno why all this started and by who... but it is time to end this... Again, I am sorry you can't fly LF you want and could fly... I hope Decurion will rock in 4,85 and we all will be happy!
That is a perfect note to [color=#FF0000]end this conversation on. Thank you all for participating. Bye now!
Edited for emphasis. This isn't going to go anywhere productive, its mostly just blowing steam at this point.
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - Jihadjoe - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:First, no I'm not part of any faction.. why should it matter?
This is not factionlancer as Jinx often says. I was invited to TBH a few times, said I could join in 5 mins at one point. I declined because I don't have time to be active regularly in more than 3 factions. I follow same rules and same RP as an independent. Maybe I also didn't wanted to be sanctioned for breaking rules again.. yes that rule that "nobody follows", well I do.
In that case don't take advantage of an arms deal between two factions which you are not part of.
That deal was not made between IMG and Corsairs, it was amde between the TBH and CR and as such it doesn't include indies. Sorry.
I said the Scimmy has a negilgable difference in turn speed and starfe. I have tested it fairly extensively. It is also vanilla so any explosive goes off anywhere near it and it pops. Bit of a disadvantage over you LF's don't you think?
If you're doing something unothodox with your ship/loadout then it needs some jusifcation, preferably where everyone can see it.
As I have said SO MANY TIMES... I am not agaist the TBH using it, in limited numbers. Now can you understand that?
The debs are made by our allies... where are debs produced on allied bases for you lot?
LF's are hard to use. Very hard, however they work well in packs, and that is by far the best tactic to use... Well done for realising that little trick corsairs. Four LFs are extremely hard to shake from you tail and do a MASSIVE amount of damage.
I respect you both as a roleplayer and a PVPer (its hard not to) but I really think that there is a lot of very needless anger here, and most of your anger is directed in the wrong direction.
Edit... sorry sov. didn't see you post.
I agree with skoko here. We all get whored by something every once in a while... hell I missile/torp whore, the OPG SN whored me last night (damn you mule blind fluke and you know it) and flying a xeno i get capwhored so much its unbelievable. I have been GB whored frequently enough, and frankly none of it matters that much.
I do know who sent in the report, and it wasn't about the tigershark. It was about debs.
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - mjolnir - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:2. Yus I was LF-whored.. but i don't mind... same as I Torp whored someone... or someone is capwhored... That is game... i enjoy it... I have indy Xeno and LR chars and I get cap whored constantly .... It is a game and that is how things work here (I was killed on my Ghound by Lib BC today.. i didn't want to run)
Well I use only capwhored out of those terms. Because taking a GB against 1 Fighter or a BS against 2 means that they can never win since they can never take the shield down. In the other situations I wouldn't say the person was <insert>whored.
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Quote:In that case don't take advantage of an arms deal between two factions which you are not part of.
That deal was not made between IMG and Corsairs, it was amde between the TBH and CR and as such it doesn't include indies. Sorry.
How many times do I need to say that the Tigershark was to be used as a clone to Arwing as long as the latter is bugged? I found it more "fair" to use a non-bugged ship. It adds nothing that the corsairs don't have already (-the bugs off course)
Quote:I said the Scimmy has a negilgable difference in turn speed and starfe. I have tested it fairly extensively. It is also vanilla so any explosive goes off anywhere near it and it pops. Bit of a disadvantage over you LF's don't you think?yes it is and? It is a worse LF, is it useless.. no
Using a different LF adds something that Outcast don't have by default.
Quote:If you're doing something unothodox with your ship/loadout then it needs some jusifcation, preferably where everyone can see it.
I am not a fan of unified loadouts on the pirate side no. Some of my pirate uses allied guns - like my Red hessian bomber has LWB and Bundschuh guns. I don't feel the need to make a justification for it.
Quote:As I have said SO MANY TIMES... I am not agaist the TBH using it, in limited numbers. Now can you understand that?
Yes I can, yet it was you who started that thread.
I wonder what "limited" means, 4 (+ AoM who was missing and Fabiano who bought his after the fights) is certainly "limited" isn't it?
Quote:The debs are made by our allies... where are debs produced on allied bases for you lot?
yes they are.. no problem with that, but it's not 100% Outcast loadout - so you are actually getting the best to win aren't you?
Quote:LF's are hard to use. Very hard, however they work well in packs, and that is by far the best tactic to use... Well done for realising that little trick corsairs. Four LFs are extremely hard to shake from you tail and do a MASSIVE amount of damage.
Those people who got "LF-whored" in those fights always had only 2 LFs on their tail. The reasons they were killed were their own completely wrong tactic for countering them as I have said many times. I have also said that I'm ready to explain anyone in PM what were the (at least 3) major mistakes there.
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - sovereign - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:That is a perfect note to [color=#FF0000]end this conversation on. Thank you all for participating. Bye now!:rtfm:
Edited for emphasis. This isn't going to go anywhere productive, its mostly just blowing steam at this point.
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - Carlos_Benitez - 05-29-2008
"One rule for the corsairs, different rules for others" -nothing new. For at least 12 months the game has been deliberately tilted to reduce Corsair overpopulation.
It's very demoralising to lose every fight you get into (I suck. Get over it) and more and more disadvantages are being dumped in our laps.
I haven't flown the arwing, but I've seen it, and I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole. The Arwing's design is not in-keeping with anything in modern Sirius, and the Tiger Shark (note it's texture) fit's the Corsairs at-least slightly, in appearance.
To reduce concerns about the Arwing being a total mis-fit, they shoved it in Corsair-land (where the bad people live) and called it "an alien design" just like normally happens with designs that don't fit anywhere.
IMO. There are far too many "ships based on alien designs" in Disco. Canonicly, there have been only 2 alien races to exist in Sirius; the Nomads and the Dom Kavosh, which share similar technology (as the Nomads where created by the DK). Thus the only "alien designs" to be found in Sirius should reflect the Nomads.
I'm sure similar sanctions would take place if the Corsairs where using Ravens Talons, despite the fact that pretty much every criminal faction has afew. With regard to use of in-RP ships and tech, I'd wager the Corsairs are among the best behaved on DiscoRP, and by backing ourselves into a box (by voluntarily being strict about our ship choices) we are now being told we have to stay there.
Occasions when rules aren't entirely clear happen all the time, and are almost always dealt with by one admin inflicting their own opinion and crushing any attempt to argue with the classic "don't look for loopholes".
It needs to be written into the rules; "Civillian equipment is for everyone...EXCEPT CORSAIRS".
Why can't Corsairs use Tigershark instead of bugged Arwing - sovereign - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:That is a perfect note to [color=#FF0000]end this conversation on. Thank you all for participating. Bye now!
Edited for emphasis. This isn't going to go anywhere productive, its mostly just blowing steam at this point.
I'm going to do this for every post if necessary. We got to a nice-ish ending, time to settle down now and spend time with friends, write RP or *gasp* play the game instead of endlessly arguing over it!