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+--- Thread: are you kiddin me? (/showthread.php?tid=12743)
are you kiddin me? - Exile - 10-04-2008
Even though it isn't agains the rules doesn't mean it should be done. I mean come on. Shooting an under leveled character which is probaply on it's way to somewhere else with your big ships and fully equipped figthers and bombers? If he'd be camping the system somehow and act like an annoying god knows what, then sure. But if he or she is just passing through, come on please.
are you kiddin me? - jpo - 10-04-2008
Those are RP rules not server rules, big difference. You can't gain the right to KOS someone who's not high enough level to be attacked in the first place no matter what your RP is.
are you kiddin me? - ryoken - 10-04-2008
' Wrote:I gotta be the devils adovocate here.
Tenacity's right. If you enter a guard system, someone elses system, and you're neutral, you're going to get hounded.
Camera ship or not.
~Leo
' Wrote:Sorry, but I agree with Tenacity here.
Too many people fly wherever they want and use their level to protect them, which can be reaaaly annoying.
And the guy message you saying to leave the system? He's got a nerve...
' Wrote:If he was in 100 he can kill any intruders regardless of level, as long as the Bs| have authorised him to do so right?
' Wrote:Just to clear it up.
Even if a lvl 5 civilian goes through Omicron 100 you can kill him and it wouldn't be against the rules. Rules of Order space are pretty clear I think, link in my Sig.
Tenaciy was well within his right to shoot and Kill the little bugger. I also have an order Guard char,and incountered a similar ship in O-100. I treatened, and did not fire. 15 min later he came back in an Outcast desi,Killed me without a word, and yelled pawned.
After this encounter a high level Bs player said "anyone" no matter lvl/tag/ID goes into O-100 without permission. I was told you see a lvl1 player go in there kill on site.No word's/warning shot needed.
Now Bs own's O-100.That mean's they determine the rule's,and under level player's are killable. Also the PvP rule's do not apply in guard system's, so cruising is also fine.
He is lucky it was not me. I would have just blown him to hell without a word.
are you kiddin me? - stewcool - 10-04-2008
' Wrote:Tenaciy was well within his right to shoot and Kill the little bugger. I also have an order Guard char,and incountered a similar ship in O-100. I treatened, and did not fire. 15 min later he came back in an Outcast desi,Killed me without a word, and yelled pawned.
After this encounter a high level Bs player said "anyone" no matter lvl/tag/ID goes into O-100 without permission. I was told you see a lvl1 player go in there kill on site.No word's/warning shot needed.
Now Bs own's O-100.That mean's they determine the rule's,and under level player's are killable. Also the PvP rule's do not apply in guard system's, so cruising is also fine.
He is lucky it was not me. I would have just blown him to hell without a word.
I remember hearing about that attack. Then the next day also I recall someone going over there
and saying "hello" to him with 2 osiris'
are you kiddin me? - Orin - 10-04-2008
I'd just ignore them. It's not worth it, and what harm are they really causing? Treat others like you want to be treated, please. Even if you wouldn't act like them.
On another note, underlevels are allowed to be killed in player faction owned guard systems by server rule? Where is that stated?
are you kiddin me? - stewcool - 10-04-2008
' Wrote:I'd just ignore them. It's not worth it, and what harm are they really causing? Treat others like you want to be treated, please. Even if you wouldn't act like them.
On another note, underlevels are allowed to be killed in player faction owned guard systems by server rule? Where is that stated?
it was quoted several times.
are you kiddin me? - Lux - 10-04-2008
I suggest you guys don't say that Tenacity is wrong for complaining about this if you haven't been in the same situation or something similar. Too often people choose routes that they really shouldn't; think of all the traders going through Chugoku and the like. If someone commits an error, they should be made to pay for that error, however small, so that they learn not to do it again.
Also, on a side note, what IS a level 26 camera ship doing in a guard system? They have no protection from the rules if they're not in the same faction...
are you kiddin me? - Tenacity - 10-04-2008
Quote:In a system owned by a faction.
Who owns Omi Minor?
How about Alaska?
What about Major or Omi-90?
only guard systems can be owned, and omicron 100 is a guard system - that's where this took place.
Quote:you have clearly admitted to using cruise to catch him up.
That in itself is a rule infraction.
The line above is rule lawyering...
Where does it end?
And I was unaware of his ship type to begin with, he was moving at cruise speed so I assumed he was using cruise to flee in the first place. The camera ship has this nasty habit of being able to thrust at cruise speed.
Quote:The under level thing is there to protect new players from people like that. Even if he is an old hand, would you jeopordise the new players because some experienced player passed you by using that rule?
He knew exactly where he was going. A new player that jumps into a system full of hostile guard NPC's generally turns around before you can blink - this guy was going straight for the O-major jump hole, he wasnt a new player at all.
Quote:Well well well ... Here's an example of how factions take ownership of their guard system and translate it to all their ZoI systems. Alaska, Minor, Major are not Bs| turf but folks are arguing to kill everything that's not Order in those areas.
No, we arent. This incident happened in omicron 100, we dont KOS non order players outside of 100 - and even there we always give warnings. Had I seen this guy in minor, alaska, major, or anywhere else, I would have let him go without so much as a word unless he was intent on RP'ing with the order (and in this case he wasnt).
Quote:ALSO ... the rule regarding "systems owned" being less limiting on PVP ... you are not Bs| so you should be shot for being in Bs| turf. If you are not a member of the faction that owns the system, you need to remain silent on this. Don't be a self-righteous bully. I've got no problem with anyone being an Order vessel protecting their turf (for role play) ... but when server rules regarding system ownership come into play ... non-faction players don't exactly fit the bill. You wanna argue defense of a guard system ... join the faction that owns it. Otherwise you're complaints mean nothing.
Are you like akumabito mk2 or what?
I already said, black squadron allows myself and several other indy order full reign to guard O-100 against non-order and non-order-allied players.
Quote:Actually, the bolded part doesn't say anything about it being just between the warring factions. It's ambiguous, so sadly people will interpret it differently.
And that's a problem with most rules listed here, they arent specific enough and you end up getting bogus sanctions because of it.
Quote:And if the faction leader permits someone (an indie or merc) act outside the bounds of faction created laws ... then the entire faction can be sanctioned.
The majority of independent order, myself included, follow black squadron's rules of engagement in order space. Our authority to guard omicron 100 has already been discussed in the past with black squadron leaders - anyone who is not an order ID'd pilot is not allowed in. Allied faction ID's (zoner, corsair, hogosha) are only allowed in with order player escort. Everyone else is given one warning and then fired upon. Simple rules, everyone follows them.
Quit bitching when you dont know what you're talking about, baltar.
Quote:Guys, unless he has a different ID than the Civvie ID mounted, any person under level 40 is invisible to the RPing community. You ignore them, more or less, unless they are RPing and genuinely trying to do something interesting on the server.
In this case, they were simply trying to make their way through the system...ignore them.
And in guard systems the underlevel rule doesnt exist for defense purposes. It would have been more interesting if he had attempted to RP with us, but he didnt. We tried, we gave him warnings, and then I fired cruise disruptors - And according to the current state of server rules I didnt do anything against them.
Quote:Shooting an under leveled character which is probaply on it's way to somewhere else with your big ships and fully equipped figthers and bombers?
The only shots that were fired were by my fighter, and I only shot three cruise disruptors before he left the system. It's not like we were opening up on him with battleships, codenames, and supernovas.
Quote:Tenaciy was well within his right to shoot and Kill the little bugger
Yes, I was - but I didnt. He didnt die to us, he managed to escape and once out of the guard system we didnt chase him further - there's no point, we were defending our space, and once he's out of that space we dont really care about him.
Now, his name has been taken down, if he comes back later he'll be recognized as someone who has trespassed into restricted guard space and he'll be fired upon again (if he enters the guard system again, or if he's above level 30 when he comes back).
Quote:After this encounter a high level Bs player said "anyone" no matter lvl/tag/ID goes into O-100 without permission. I was told you see a lvl1 player go in there kill on site.No word's/warning shot needed.
now this I dont agree with - there should always be a warning or RP of some kind before shots get fired. Also, I dont fire on other order ID'd players there, even if they tick me off by being stupid rookies that have no respect for seasoned order players. In those cases I just submit a report to black squadron and we get an agreement that the player is rebelling against the order =P
EDIT:
Ok why the hell arent the quotes working...
are you kiddin me? - monsterlancer - 10-04-2008
' Wrote:Very similar to a situation I had yesterday. Some "press" ships were buzzing around z21 in camera ships. But were using Civy IDs and were under level... now they were trying to RP as reporters.. but were using the under level thing to be immune from being shot on sight..
I asked an Admin about it and he wasn't sure about it, so we just stuck with verbally threatening them for the time being.
What came first the chicken or the egg?
The Zone21 infocard was in the game when it came out. (Paraphrasing) If you are not authorized to be there, you will be nullified.
Now we all live with the Server Rules posted by Igiss. The server rules do not mention that they supercede or revise the restricted area (Zone 21) or any other in-game restrictions (that I know of). One could argue that since the infocard has not been deleted or revised, unless you have a LN/LSF ID with a good RP reason to be there, you may be nullified.
You can argue this for days on end and not find a concensious, We would end up needing an entire squad of paid server ADMINS in rotating shifts 24/7 sitting at the JG of Zone 21 to warn or sanction non LN/LSF ID players without reason or RP'ed authorization to be there. (I don't think I can donate that much)
Another idea for Zone 21 or other restricted areas (Guard systems) would be a change in the rules that would allow two warnings from an ADMIN and a third offense would be a seven day ban for OORP no matter what level a player is. This is a RP server right? And that would be OORP behavior right?
Many new or older players starting a new charactor want to get the entire Siruis system mapped before they have to chose or get a differant ID so that whatever they end up doing, they already know all the locations of the getaway or sneak routes there is, rather than learn as you go or have the need to know.
Thatsmy2cents.
are you kiddin me? - Tenacity - 10-04-2008
Alaska/Z21 can be guarded by players, there's no need for sanctions - the LN/LSF just need to get off their backsides and hang around the gate instead of manhattan.
I created my order character (aki.kimura) something like 6 months ago now, and since creating the character, with the exception of the past 2 or so months, I did nothing but sit in 100 and blast smugglers, outcasts, and bounty hunters who decided to intrude all day long. I've destroyed well over two dozen smugglers with full loads of cardamine in 100, and many more of them got away (aint easy catching adv trains when they're nuetral to guard npcs and your train cd's piss off the guards). I've had to fight everything from rogue gunboats to outcast destroyers to bounty hunter battlecruisers and battleships, most of them on my own.
Sorry, but I've got no tolerance for non-order and non-allied players that poke their heads into the order guard system, and as far as I'm aware I have black squadron's full support in defending that system against such intrusions. I dont care if your'e in a starflea, a camera ship, or a battleship - As far as I'm concerned I would be OORP by not stopping you from entering or passing through 100.
And what really ticks me off is all these new rookie order players that take a stroll through O-100 and treat us "veterans" like we dont belong there... I may have to add cocky recruits to my kill list once 4.85 is out.