4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons)

4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) (/showthread.php?tid=104913)

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RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Plan-B - 10-02-2013

sorry i didnt find the missile balance threat - so i post here - plz move if you found the threat

i think its nice that BS have to buy their missiles now - which is a definite restriction in using them -
screwing them down to 20 / 30 missiles in cruisers is not that nice
Bombers still can hold - much more torps - this isnt balanced

you stopped BS missile spammers - but who will stop now bomber spammers ?

so plz reduce the bomber / fighter anti cap projectiles to 20 / 30, too - these ships are much smaller than a BS and sholdnt be able to hold this ammount of ammo.

1 BS vs. 1 bomber = bomber wins - cant be true

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Zayne Carrick - 10-03-2013

Lolwhat?
Killing BS with 2 bombers take nearly infinite amount of time with good chance of BS victory.
(yes, I know, not a discussion)

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - SkyNet - 10-03-2013

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CRUISER / SHOCK RAY
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If you targeting a ship outside of the turn angle of the HP, the shock ray will shoot somewhere else, not at your targeted ship. It is nearly unpossible to hit something with it. The turn rate is to low and the charging time is a bit too long. Maybe the energy consumption should be a bit higher.
Check this pls.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Flash™ - 10-03-2013

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Cougar
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Still same as in 86, isn't that supposed to be changed?

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - QuinnZai - 10-03-2013

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IMG - Nanda Devi
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The Nanda Devi has 5 cargo space too much and thus unable to cloak. All other heavy bombers can cloak, it seems. Don't know if this is intentional, but as the only bomber that is unable to mount a small cloak, it is a bit strange.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Govedo13 - 10-05-2013

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Gallic Cruiser
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The damn thing was supposed to be Battlecruiser this version.
It have the size of Battlecruiser so just make it such.
If it is model issue to place the big BS guns:
It could be quite nice weird BC without BS turrets- 120 speed 1 additional flak turret spot, BC core and huge Hull/Bot/Bat boost to compensate.

Or you can keep it as it is and give it forward cannon.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Narcotic - 10-05-2013

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Sammaels
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(09-25-2013, 11:34 AM)Narcotic Wrote: .86 Sammael:
Hull Damage: 292 /round
Power Usage: 61 u/round

.87 Sammael:
Hull Damage: 292 /round
Power Usage: 83 u/round

.86 Vengeance:
Hull Damage: 255 /round
Power Usage: 55 u/round

.87 Vengeance:
Hull Damage: 273 /round
Power Usage: 55 u/round

I tested it yesterday on my Werewolf for 3 hours in multiple snubfights. The energy consumption is far too high, even for the Werewolf's large SHF powercore. No to mention the balance on a Greyhound or Hyena with Sammaels. Or are we supposed to shotgun with those 8.33ers now? Because constant/spray fire is now ineffective.

In .86 the Sammael was perfectly balanced towards the Rogue vessels. Now it's not anymore, and you literally force us to use faster non-Rogue ships in order to compensate this heavy weapon nerf.

Rogue tech was always heavy, large and slow with superior weapons.
Now LN tech is light, small and fast with superior weapons.
Only drawbacks left for the Rogues. And it worked so well in .86. Thanks a lot.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Lythrilux - 10-05-2013

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Gallic Assault Transport
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Doesn't seem to be able to turret zoom anymore.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - TLI-Inferno - 10-08-2013

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Annapurna
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It doesn't make much sense to remove the Annapurna's ability to zoom. You have now made it entirely defenseless against pirates, as it's a transport but is forced to use normal view, making it impossible to hit the target. I think you were trying to stop it from being used offensively, but that failed; against larger targets, it is still plenty effective without the zoom. All you did was make it useless for people who used it legitimately as a mining transport and who would need to be able to defend themselves against pirate bombers. Return its zoom so it can actually have a chance at defending itself. It only has 800 cargo; it's not like it's some kind of overpowered megatransport powertrading tool. At least let it defend itself.

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AI Drone
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I don't like what you did to the AI Drone. You weakened its weapons, and you removed its zoom. What is it now? Take a Nephthys. Remove a bunch of hull. Remove a gun. Remove its torpedo slot. Slow it down so it steers like one of the heavier SHF's. Now you have the AI Drone.

There are a few ways you could make it useful again, choose one or two, but of course don't do all of them or then it would become overpowered:

1: Increase the strength of its guns up to what they used to be, dealing between 2700 and 2900 DPS. There are alread codenames that deal this amount of damage, it should at least be able to keep up with codenames, considering how slow the AI Drone turns.
2: Give it a torpedo slot with an AI version of the Tartarus, which of course would be weaker, dealing around 15,000 shield damage and moving at 680 m/s. If it's going to have VHF stats, it could at least have a torpedo.
3: Give it more hull, increasing its hull from 11,000 up to 15,000. Considering that it turns as slow as a heavy SHF, it could at least have more hull than VHFs.
4: Increase its turn rate so that it matches that of other VHF's; up from 57 degrees per second to 68 degrees per second, where it would be about average. At the moment, such a hideous turn rate for something so fragile is ridiculous.
5: Return its ability to turret zoom. If it's going to be weak and slow, it could at least be able to turret steer (even though its turrets only fire forwards).

As I stated above, choose one or two of these, not all five; that would just be overpowered.

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Salvager
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With basic gunboat turrets being weakened so drastically, the salvager is now unable to properly defend itself against fighters and bombers. Its power core is too weak to use anything other than basics effectively, and basics are absolute crap.

It should either:

1: Have its turrets removed, and just be given 12x transport turrets
or
2: Have its turrets removed, and just be given 6x cruiser turrets (not as overpowered as it sounds, most of a cruiser's firepower comes from its heavy slots, a mere 6x regular cruiser turrets would actually render the salvager still having significantly less firepower than most transports, although still effective)

That is unless gunboat basics are improved to not be absolute crap.

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Pelican/Armored Transport
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The Pelican is still a great ship, but there's a bit of a problem with it. Since it can no longer equip missiles, as it does not have class 10 slots, it suddenly has transport turrets and then fighter guns, which don't mix together very well. It would be nice if the two class 9 gun mounts were removed and it was given just one class 10 mount that a player could place a missile into.

It also needs to be given more cargo; its current cargo is ridiculously tiny for a transport. At least increase its cargo up to 900. It would still be useless for people who want to profit, you don't have to worry about people "powertrading in battle pelicans", but at least it would have some sort of function as a transport.

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Bottlenose
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With the bottlenose being so significantly larger, I believe it would be appropriate to increase its hull points from 55,000 up to at least 65,000.

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Transport Type 3 Turrets
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I know they're not called that anymore, but I'm talking about the 800 m/s transport turrets, and all variations of them. They are weak; they do pretty much the same damage per second as Dulzians, except they're way slower. Please increase their damage per shot up to 1,240, giving them 2,480 DPS. If it's okay for people to have Charon Turrets which are 600 m/s and 4,160 DPS, then why does 800 m/s have to be so hideously weak?

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Gunboat Basic Turrets
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I understand that you were trying to balance gunboats, but this is just ridiculous. Gunboats are supposed to fight other gunboats, fighters, and bombers. Why would you weaken the turrets designed for that job until gunboats become nothing but small versions of cruisers, using heavy turrets that are for killing other capital ships instead of fighters?

Please, at least increase the projectile speed of the basic turrets (and the house variations of them) up to 1200 m/s. They'll still be slower than they were in 4.86, so the one or two people who thought they were too fast will still have their way with them being slower, but the current 990 m/s is just way too slow, that puts them at the point where they are almost as slow as Cerberus, except with not much more than half its DPS.

There are lots more things that need to be fixed, but I'll leave it there for now.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Pancakes - 10-08-2013

(10-05-2013, 12:17 PM)Narcotic Wrote: ==============
Sammaels
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(09-25-2013, 11:34 AM)Narcotic Wrote: .86 Sammael:
Hull Damage: 292 /round
Power Usage: 61 u/round

.87 Sammael:
Hull Damage: 292 /round
Power Usage: 83 u/round

.86 Vengeance:
Hull Damage: 255 /round
Power Usage: 55 u/round

.87 Vengeance:
Hull Damage: 273 /round
Power Usage: 55 u/round

I tested it yesterday on my Werewolf for 3 hours in multiple snubfights. The energy consumption is far too high, even for the Werewolf's large SHF powercore. No to mention the balance on a Greyhound or Hyena with Sammaels. Or are we supposed to shotgun with those 8.33ers now? Because constant/spray fire is now ineffective.

In .86 the Sammael was perfectly balanced towards the Rogue vessels. Now it's not anymore, and you literally force us to use faster non-Rogue ships in order to compensate this heavy weapon nerf.

Rogue tech was always heavy, large and slow with superior weapons.
Now LN tech is light, small and fast with superior weapons.
Only drawbacks left for the Rogues. And it worked so well in .86. Thanks a lot.

While basically you are right, that the change was way too radical, a change was needed.
Sammaels were hidiously OP in 4.86, deny it or not. They had the highest DPS, along with 750 m/s speed, 700 range, and among the best DPE.

I am sorry, but you can't have a "got-it-all" gun, especially when you don't have to fly Rogue ships (5 sammael sabres anyone?).

Perhaps the middle ground should have been used, a nerf for Sammaels was needed, period. But, in the same time, Rogue ships could've got a buff to make the natural combination good again.

About vengeance getting buffed - I have no idea why this was needed. Vengeance was quite balanced in 4.86. Heck, with LN ships I would even nerf it by a little bit rather than buff it some more.