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4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) (/showthread.php?tid=104913)

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RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Arioch - 10-09-2013

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Order Recon Cruiser "Resheph"
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It's cargo was buffed/changed to allow for a cruiser cloak. But the cargo it was changed to is 1000, 100 over the limit for a cruiser cloak (900).

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Nerva - 10-09-2013

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"Geb" Order Light Assault Carrier
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As a cruiser it was useless because of its large size. Now it has battleship equipment which fits it much better. However it has:
  • More armor and regens than Osiris.
  • Quite a bit better agility than Osiris.
  • Smaller size than Osiris. (Size appears to be unchanged)
  • Same amount of heavies, one less primary than Osiris (but it has much more secondaries to provide anti-snub fire support).
The result is a quite effective instrument for destroying battleships, which is not the primary role of a carrier. It's also too cheap.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Nerva - 10-11-2013

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2.0 Faction Plasma Weapons
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These are:
  • Magma Hammer V - 2200 DPS, 500 EPS
  • Firekiss II - 2250 DPS, 610 EPS
  • Grand Culverin - 2020 DPS, 550 EPS
There isn't problem with the guns themselves. It's just that they seem to have no advantages over even the cheapest 2.0 class 9 guns. For example:
  • ONYX / BLOODSTONE have the same DPS (2222 / 2240) and consume less energy (476 / 494).
  • BLUE BLAZE has much higher DPS (2460) and consumes the same amount of energy as Magmas (506), and much less than the other two.
Considering the low prices of ONYX and BLOODSTONE and the lack of tech counter, there is no reason to not use them over faction 2.0 guns.

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Light Fighters
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There are still two main categories of LFs:
  • The good ones - Liberator, Tanto, Onuris, Manaslu, Surveyor, etc
  • The mostly useless ones - Griffin, Gecko, Caracal, Tournez, etc
The former typically have very small size and high agility. Armor varies (Liberator - 5400, Onuris - 6800).
The latter have VHF sizes, varying agility (Gecko is fast, Caracal is slow) and varying armor (Griffin - 5400, Tournez - 6900).
There are, of course, some that are between the two groups.
They all have the same 850/8500 powercore.
The main problem of the second group is their VHF size and, in some cases, slowness. The ultra-small and agile ships of the first group are often referred as "troll-ships" that are impossible to kill.
The new LF guns aren't going to affect the survivability differences in any way.

I propose to change the second group in at least two of the following ways:
  • Median armor of ~7000
  • Median agility of ~85 deg/sec.
  • At least 900/9000 powercore (with the new weapons it will matter)
Nerfing the first group would render them unable to deal any meaningful damage, I fear.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - GrnRaptor - 10-12-2013

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"Carbine" and "Carbine II" Gallic Civilian Pulse Cannons
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So aside from the speed of round issues I've mentioned before, it seems like someone messed up the Carbine and Carbine II stats. Nearly double energy requirement for the IIs (70 vs. 37) with only a 58 point increase in shield damage per round. They're also exactly the same price. If perhaps the IIs had the increased speed over the regulars this might make some sense, but right now it seems more efficient and useful to just buy the Class 7 guns over the Class 8 ones.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Syrus - 10-15-2013

(09-29-2013, 08:21 PM)Haste Wrote: ==============
Touketsu
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Now has a bomber powercore, but still has its old VHF agility stats.
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Touketsu
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Still has VHF agility. Even good one, I might add.

But I'd like to make a suggestion about its weapons.
We all know how wing-mounted SNACs are a pain and all and it also looks kind of weird, so I'd like to suggest to change the turret (below the ship) into a gun - no-one uses the backfiring-capability of a turret on a non-TS/TZ ship anyway - and switch it with the CD, while switching the SNAC/NOVA mount with the upper gun (gun 3).

Like this, pretty much, not that the order of "what is switched with which" matters:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/styfhkt2k05zu4f/Touketsu.png

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - SummerMcLovin - 10-17-2013

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Nyx
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Might as well officially report this.

The Nyx has been nerfed extremely in agility to the point of being the slowest VHF. Back to 4.86 or at least to appropriate levels as a lighter-armoured VHF in the Taus.

EDIT: Syrus says around 69 deg/s would work.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - TLI-Inferno - 10-23-2013

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Armicustos
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The Armicustos is the new Corsair transport. It costs $41,600,000, quite a heavy price for a ship with only 2,100 cargo. One would expect such an expensive transport with such a small amount of cargo to be fast and/or have good firepower and/or be small. Unfortunately, it fires 7 turrets forwards and 5 in most other directions. It is tremendously larger than the other small transports, which you could literally fit several of inside of it, including the: Percheron (2500 cargo), Bumblebee (1800 cargo), Mammoth (2,200 cargo), and the Nanga Parbat (1,800 cargo). It needs to have its arcs improved. It should at LEAST shoot all 8 of its turrets forwards, and preferably be able to shoot a fair amount of turrets in other directions as well. It should also receive a speed boost. It is by far the slowest of any other transport with such a small amount of cargo. Even the Raba, which has 8 gunboat turrets, more hull, and better arcs, turns faster than this.

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DEFILER
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I know it needed to be weakened with it being available to the public, but it is absolute crap now. Let's compare the new DEFILER (which is still incredibly difficult to get) to the other shieldbusting alternatives:

DEFILER (Codename): 400 HDPS, 2674 HDPS, 2.00 Fire Rate, 600 m/s Projectile Speed, 720 E u/s
Tizona Del Cid: 176 HDPS, 2664 SDPS, 4.00 Fire Rate, 650 m/s Projectile Speed, 580 E u/s
Imp. Debilitator Mk II: 160 HDPS, 2112 SDPS, 4.00 Fire Rate, 650 m/s Projectile Speed, 512 E u/s
Imp. Debilitator Mk I: 160 HDPS, 2088 SDPS, 4.00 Fire Rate, 750 m/s Projectile Speed, 512 E u/s
Falcon: 117 HDPS, 1940 SDPS, 5.88 Fire Rate, 700 m/s Projectile Speed, 458 E u/s
Dragunov SVD-2: 41 HDPS, 2040 SDPS, 5.88 Fire Rate, 715 m/s Projectile Speed, 517 E u/s
Carbine II: 33 HDPS, 1917 SDPS, 6.67 Fire Rate, 650 m/s Projectile Speed, 466 E u/s

So, as we can see, the DEFILER costs a ridiculous amount of power and doesn't do enough shield damage to make up for its power cost, especially at only 600 m/s.

One of the things that was unique about the DEFILER was its ability to deal hull damage, albeit less than a normal gun, but still helpful damage.

I suggest increasing the HDPS of the DEFILER up to 1200, where it would still be inadequate compared to hull-damaging guns, especially considering its enormous energy cost, but it would at least have enough damage to do something. It should also have its SDPS increased up to 3000, after all it is 2.00 and 600 m/s, which makes it more difficult to hit with than other shield-busters. At the moment, I would honestly never use the DEFILER, despite its rarity, because of its enormous energy cost which is not even made up for with damage.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Vigilia.Procuratio - 10-23-2013

In all fairness, though, you can't really compare it to a gun which is available only to one faction, unless that's what it's up against. A more general comparison ought be against the civilian equivalents only. I personally don't feel that the shield damage needs to be increased at all, while the hull damage should not exceed one quarter that of the shield. Boosting the speed to 650 might be reasonable.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - TLI-Inferno - 10-25-2013

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800 m/s Transport Turrets
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As I've mentioned even in 4.86, before they were nerfed and the other turrets were buffed, the 800 m/s turrets are too weak. They do pretty much the same DPS as Dulzians, except they're way slower. They need their projectile speed increased to 900 m/s and have their range increased to 1200. Considering that you increased their energy usage so significantly compared to the old Type 3's even when Type 3's were ALREADY significantly underused, you should not have decreased their range, in fact their range should have been increased.
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Pirate Transport Turrets
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I also think that the Pirate Transport Turret should be different from the other variants. Since pirates would generally be using these turrets to, obviously, pirate, these turrets should be catered a bit more towards hitting heavier targets.

I think that the Pirate Transport Turrets should have these stats:

Hull DPS: 2900
Shield Damage: 1450
Refire Rate: 2.00
Projectile Speed: 800 m/s
Range: 1000m
E U/s: 840

Now, before everyone cries "OP", let's compare these to Charon Transport Turrets: 4160 HDPS, 2.00 Fire Rate, 600 m/s, almost 1100m range, 1160 E u/s.

RE: 4.87 Ship balance reports (Ships / Weapons) - Blackvertigo1 - 10-28-2013

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PYRO-GL
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Requires application to ship archtype in Discovery Freelancer. :\