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+--- Thread: Researcher ID - It's coming back! (/showthread.php?tid=124743)
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - Zed26 - 01-16-2015
(01-16-2015, 10:40 PM)Mímir Wrote: Yet it installs other mechanisms of division, as people in various ways pointed out in this thread, and plenty, plenty of other threads.Sure, there will always be divisions, but there are far more opportunities to move up and get support by being reasonable and diplomatic. In how many cases did people try to get their way, but added insults, confrontation, assigned blame, made broad generalizations, had one-sided arguments, etc.? They're not the greatest ways to persuade people, whether in here or real life.
If people want to put up an unfriendly front and try to change things by fighting rather than holding a civil discussion, that's their decision. If someone has a personal code not to compromise by making any concessions our courtesies to others, I'm sure they're fun at parties. Maybe they feel this is a warzone, where we need forum freedom fighters engaging in guerrilla warfare, exposing conspiracies, tearing people or things down, which will somehow lead to a better Discovery
They're all going to have a hard time affecting change unless they can start negotiating peacefully, or regain some of that goodwill in other ways, like tangible, positive mod/community contributions.Anyway, looking forward to the new ID.
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - Alley - 01-16-2015
(01-16-2015, 10:54 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: Alley, Zoners/Freelancers is much like civilians which are not affiliated anymore with houses. They can do whatever they want, aswell as research stuff. So, would you like to review any aspect of what Zoner and Freelancer could do and make separate ID for that? That's frustaining. But if you guys like another on life-support ID, sure why not.
I don't think you're in a position to criticize that when your own faction asked for their own ID because they were not zoners enough anymore. As a matter of fact all the zoner special snowflakes ended up being relatively useless aside of OSI.
I'm okay with the return of this ID, I don't really get why it's an SRP but that's not my call. You shouldn't judge this before people start using it/suffers its first adjustment because there's no doubt that will happen.
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - Mímir - 01-16-2015
@Zed
But don't you understand that we are a motley bunch, from different countries and cultures? Of different temperament and patience?
You are promoting a singular approach, with a specific norm-set and structures in place. That is difficult for people with less fluent English to negotiate, for instance.
That being said, you never really defended why we should have these mechanisms of division, when we can limit them or try to do away with them altogether?
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - Arioch - 01-16-2015
(01-16-2015, 10:06 PM)RedEclipse Wrote:(01-16-2015, 07:41 PM)Drrobe Wrote: I brought up the idea for the Researcher ID with Conrad, because the group I have are Researchers. We operate under the Zoner ID, but that comes with a certain stigma whenever someone sees the word "Zoner".So Finn, this ID was created only because you and Conrad disliked a label of Zoner on your Zoner group? Ehm, Zoner ID has many roles to be played("stigma" is not really a reason to restore dead IDs), aswell Freelancer ID too. You simple run away from RP aspect and used admin powers to restore useless ID.
I wish every group in disco would have same abilities to run away from "labels" and "stigma". But it won't happen, yeah?
Wow Red. You want to bring up the IRG? Then lets.
You have it all wrong, and are making assumptions that are completely unfounded. If the IRG go for the Researcher ID, then we'll still fly with Zoner IFF, and still RP as Zoners. But as you JUST said, Zoners are not affiliated with houses. Guess what, the IRG's primary RP has been WITH Houses, thus going against the typical "Zoners don't deal with houses". So by having the origins and still be Zoners inRP and ooRP with the IFF, but with a Researcher ID, it thus avoids the typical "You're a Zoner, so I'm not going to deal with you" and instead allows for more RP. It allows people to see a Researcher first, and Zoner origin. Just like if I have a job, I'm not going to say "American or is a Researcher". I'll say I'm a Researcher, who just happens to be American. See the difference? Hence being Researcher ID as the JOB, and the Zoner IFF as where i'm from. Make sense? Oh wait, I'm sorry - RP outside of the Order or Phoenix Zoner is lost with you, and anything that isn't exclusive to Phoenix RP is not worth your effort. My mistake, I forgot.
Was Admin powers used to create this? No. So, you are wrong again. It was submitted as a request, and then Admins discussed and voted on it. Guess who DIDN'T vote on it? Me, considering I put forward the request. I abstained from voting on it, and let it be decided on from the other Admins.
Lastly, am I running away from RP if I decide to apply for the Researcher ID? No - I'm expanding it. I'm sorry that you feel that by leaving the Phoenix not being constrained by what YOU want with my RP is running away, but it's quite the opposite. I'm now in a position where I can explore RP as a Zoner AND a Researcher, should I choose.
So before you make accusations that really make no sense, and are based on false assumptions, maybe think "Hmm, maybe there is more behind the scenes that I don't know".
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - RedEclipse - 01-16-2015
Alley, I've been asked multiple times admins before apply to our own ID - these IDs are sub ID of generic faction, so technically nothing changed. Just ability of own rephack, so you're judging wrong.
The thing is Spec Op ID have been "all in one". But if we are return this ID and Spec Ops ID no more satisfies hard core RPers, why not also bring all of these dead IDs, they can be also useful for someone, like Vigilante ID or Military ID.
Finn, I never had been interested in your RP because it wasn't about Phoenix but RP for your needs, don't get it wrong/try to insult me. I don't feel problem when Zoners should deal with houses(you know business is okay), if you don't want became a part of them. So technically, Researcher ID is just a clone of Freelancer/Zoner ID. It took so long to get rid of them and finally admins that - as we have IDs which technically same. But, if we are for diversity, lets restore all of them back. That's my thoughts.
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - Zed26 - 01-16-2015
@Mímir
I wasn't defending the mechanisms of division at all - I meant that they're bound to occur naturally. It's unfortunate that they're around and we should absolutely do away with them. It's pretty hard to shake having a reputation for being contrary just to argue or a jerk, but people change. There's nothing wrong with people from different backgrounds, personalities, or aptitudes with English either - working in other places has been a personal job in real life. A lot of patience and temperament transcends the language and culture, though, and a little self-awareness can go a long way. It's often pretty apparent when someone is making a genuine effort to work together, or when they expect everyone else to accommodate them.
This is getting pretty off-topic though. If you want to discuss the norms of Discovery, feel free to make another thread.
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - Arioch - 01-16-2015
As brought up in various Skype chats, if someone wants to make a motion and submit a Player Request for the other ID's to be brought back, then go ahead - That's what I did with the Researcher ID. I Created the discussion, and it was put forth to an Admin vote, that I didn't vote on. I acted as a Player in this regard, not an Admin. So there is really nothing stopping anyone from submitting a Player Request for a Mercenary ID, or Vigilante ID, or so on and so forth.
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - Mímir - 01-16-2015
(01-16-2015, 11:45 PM)Zed26 Wrote: STUFF
Are you somehow implying that I give 2 cents about my forum image and that forum image in any way correspond with in-game behavior and personality?
Either way, you were bringing stuff off-topic. I was trying to make a pro-active suggestion to get past the stuff about elitist ID, PVP and powertrading. There is a valid point in trying to avoid an SRP-like situation, and people shouldn't be flamed for bringing up the issue.
Feel free to add me to skype if you got a problem with me somehow.
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - Zed26 - 01-16-2015
(01-16-2015, 11:52 PM)Mímir Wrote: Are you somehow implying that I give 2 cents about my forum image and that forum image in any way correspond with in-game behavior and personality?Whoah, sorry you took a particular interpretation of things personally. I'm referring to people in general wasn't singling you out at all. That's not my bag.
Either way, you were bringing stuff off-topic. I was trying to make a pro-active suggestion to get past the stuff about elitist ID, PVP and powertrading. There is a valid point in trying to avoid an SRP-like situation, and people shouldn't be flamed for bringing up the issue.
Feel free to add me to skype if you got a problem with me somehow.
I stand by my argument that it's not a lot to ask to have someone demonstrate little thought and responsibility via SRP in order to get access to certain things, especially when so many people complain about too many capital ships or special equipment being abused. There's no strict rubric demanding people have perfect English spelling and vocabulary, or even a strenuous interview to gauge personality - it just takes a little writing and is completely optional.
RE: Researcher ID - It's coming back! - n00bl3t - 01-17-2015
(01-16-2015, 10:43 PM)Alley Wrote: jeez this is worst than a Karlotta post by entire galaxies
(01-16-2015, 11:17 PM)Alley Wrote: I don't think you're in a position to criticize that when your own faction asked for their own ID because they were not zoners enough anymore. As a matter of fact all the zoner special snowflakes ended up being relatively useless aside of OSI.
Not sure if trolling/insulting.
Past Alley's anti-Zoner hatred, it'd be interesting to implement. No, I actually want it implemented. We'll review it in 12 months time and see how many special snowflake researchers there are, and how many of those approved for the ID are related to IRG.
