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+---- Thread: Player Sanctioned: Uknown (/showthread.php?tid=205593)
Player Sanctioned: Uknown - TheKusari - 11-09-2024
Uknown has been sanctioned for:
Consequences:
Quote:1.1 - Discovery is an English-language roleplaying server. Communication in-game and in the roleplaying areas of the forums must be in-character and appropriate for Discovery Freelancer's setting. Metagaming and powergaming are strictly forbidden.
Consequences:
Posting a charting report of the Inverness System as Rheinland Police is egregious, a very strong example of Metagaming. We could understand if the police were to "get to know" more about the border worlds of Rheinland, but making a trip to the independent worlds not even remotely connected to your native House, saying you have found a Vagrant Hive is well outside the realm of possibility for a roleplay server. This is not the role of a Police Officer.
As you have admitted that you were the player involved in this violation, now that there's been another offense, this one has been escalated to a sanction. Your post has been hidden as a result. All I can recommend is to stay within your House and do police things, and read the server rules.
As you have admitted that you were the player involved in this violation, now that there's been another offense, this one has been escalated to a sanction. Your post has been hidden as a result. All I can recommend is to stay within your House and do police things, and read the server rules.
If you require evidence, you may request such via PM from a Staff member. Only the accused or an official faction leader of the accused person's faction may request such. Once you have the evidence, and if you wish to dispute it, you may post in the Sanction Thread below. Do not continue PM'ing a staff member, as that will result in your Appeal being denied. If you PM a staff or post in the sanction thread and you are not directly involved, you are consenting to be subjected to the reprisal of my choice which may involve in game repercussions up to a ban. Blaming members of your immediate family, neighbors, friends, pets, and assorted Orcs, Trolls and any other legendary creatures may result in the use of Admin Right #CTE 750AE
RE: Player Sanctioned: Uknown - Uknown - 11-10-2024
Let's go about point by point would ya?
Wanna a short story? or just again admit that could maybe bypassed a bit more of "Metagaming" But wanted make some special report as Geist team (Polizei Intelligence) while you can bring Feedback to Ms.Freyja Wolf Inspektorin and 1IC of the Polizei with your toughs and so get it fixed and having her being harsh as his rank against a very low ranked
Instead you decide to sanction me (man, KPR has a Feedback page actually ¬¬ use it to bring report and we can take measures to prevent it from happening again, or contact her as she promised will slap any member doing things if the feedback is done reasonably and respectful, errors happen, probably not as big as mine, but happen, some are weird some others are inexplicable and some are just done for missing or not reviewing something, she already told me about some feedback was done to me and other members, she acted appropiately, some other feedbacks were harsh and she laught about it, we are new trying to do things "new" a little bit out of rule maybe, but man, that could be already be fixed don't you think about it?
If you wanna short story, "Sorry, i will not be doing such things again"
If you wanna full story then here we go
Pursuing a Vagrant Ship Beyond Rheinland
I submitted a charting report while pursuing a Vagrant ship, which I believed was reasonable since the engagement began within Rheinland territory and nearby borders. I understand now that this may have been perceived as overstepping, but since the pursuit originated in Rheinland, I felt it was in line with our jurisdiction.
The report was presented as an "Operation," similar to what an intelligence team, such as Geist, might conduct to monitor anomalies. Although the BDM handles intelligence, it seems logical that the Polizei might have a limited intelligence branch for operations like this, especially when conducted with a small asset like a single fighter rather than a capital ship.
The Geist Team and its Unique Role in Rheinland
The Geist Team serves as a small, specialized intelligence unit within the Rheinland Polizei, distinct from and somewhat cautious about the BDM. This structure taps into the reality that local law enforcement and intelligence agencies often face friction, something commonly seen both in real life and in popular media. For example, in The Mentalist, the California Bureau of Investigation (CBI) often faces interference from the FBI and CIA, especially when investigations cross state or national security lines. Similarly, in CSI: Miami, Lieutenant Horatio Caine's team frequently clashes with the FBI, who sometimes step in on cases involving federal interests, creating tension over methods and control. These examples reflect the complex dynamic between local law enforcement and broader intelligence agencies, with differing priorities and methods.
In real life, agencies like the FBI and local police often have overlapping yet conflicting interests, especially in matters of jurisdiction or approach. Local authorities might focus on maintaining immediate public order, while intelligence agencies, with broader, long-term mandates, can come off as overstepping local concerns. The Geist Team and BDM can mirror these tensions, with Geist handling matters Rheinland’s borders or population are immediately impacted by, while BDM might be focused on broader intelligence operations across Sirius.
In a way, a snubcraft fighter, rather than a larger capital ship, is a suitable choice for the Polizei’s intelligence work. In contrast, large ships attract attention, while a smaller fighter allows Geist to conduct subtle recon and operations. This approach keeps the Rheinland Polizei grounded in their usual vanilla roles as well, reinforcing their presence without stepping into an unrealistic show of force for localized or smaller intelligence missions.
Understanding the Difference Between Meta- and Powergaming
I see that this action could be considered overreach or even powergaming, I admit I’m not entirely clear on the distinction between metagaming and powergaming. From my understanding, metagaming means using out-of-character knowledge in-character, while powergaming means pushing character capabilities beyond reasonable limits. Could you clarify which category this action falls under?
Knowledge of Sirius Systems
I assumed my character, as a well-educated Polizei officer, would have knowledge of Sirius systems through training in geography and cartography. This pursuit was not an attempt to apply Rheinland laws outside of Rheinland, just an exploration. I believe characters should not be overly restricted in their awareness of systems beyond their own borders; otherwise, it might limit their scope of engagement and make cross-house pursuits implausible.
Acknowledging the Error and Alternatives
If charting and tracing a suspect beyond Rheinland borders was overreach, I accept that it was a mistake. The pursuit was genuinely fun for me, and others seemed to enjoy the activity as well. Moving forward, I understand it may be better to commission a freelancer or bounty hunter to perform similar exploration tasks on behalf of the Polizei. If rephrasing the report to reflect that approach would be more appropriate, I am willing to make that change.
Would that be better for you?
I’m asking because if everything we do needs approval just to bring some activity to our side, that’s fine
I’ll take that approach next time. Or, would it be better if we reach out to you each time we plan something, to ensure admin approval before moving forward?
We still have some unanswered questions about the rules that we submitted over two months ago. Only the admins can provide clarity on these points, yet we haven’t received a response. It feels as if their focus is more on finding player errors than on addressing the questions we need help with to improve.
I’m reaching out for clarification regarding a sanction notice too, as it seems there may have been a misunderstanding. Here’s a breakdown of the situation:
2.- First Sanction - Already Addressed by Staff Member @Karidon
Approximately a month ago, a sanction issue was resolved with Staff Member Karidon (As he rightfully delivered myself into Bastille upon undocking and start a mission, actually i forgot i had to rename it).
We discussed the circumstances, reviewed the actions involved, and agreed on an appropriate resolution, including a character name change (With Goldene_Sonne) since this isn't any rule-breaking and all you wanted is to just change name to another i choose another colored sonne, which by Karidon seems more than acceptable. I provided the necessary chat logs to clarify any misunderstanding, and Karidon confirmed that the issue was lifted as he returned to New London and everyone was happy, end of story.
Lack of Follow-Up from Wildkings
At the time, I attempted to seek evidence from Wildkings regarding the notice but received no response, leaving the matter unresolved from my perspective (I bring my evidence, but i got no answer so i acted accordingly and pressed a post to Admins to actually do his work. I believed the issue was fully sorted following my conversation with Karidon, yet it now appears this notice has resurfaced.
What I proposed was simple: just provide us with a list of names that you don’t want to see on the server. That’s it. However, my suggestion was denied, and it seemed like there was no interest in the idea. So, I reached out to one of my best friends for help, and together, we started compiling a list. Currently, we have about 61 names and symbols on it, and we are still looking for more. If anyone here or in the server wants to provide feedback or contribute to the list, it would be greatly appreciated.
As per German laws, this is not considered criminal behavior. In fact, it’s aimed at promoting historical knowledge and understanding. I am neither European nor did I live during that time period of history, but we know about some of the actions and events, both the positive contributions to humanity and, unfortunately, the atrocities. However, in no documentary or resource I’ve encountered has the "Black Sun" been labeled as a Nazi symbol. I didn’t know its full historical implications at the time. Its esoteric meaning seemed interesting, and I barely used that ship—at most, 4 times, across two player events a long time ago. No one raised any issues during those events, either. It’s difficult to understand why it went unnoticed by others, especially when I listed that ship twice by then.
I’ve also come across Latin American names that are disliked by certain communities. But you know what? I’ve actually laughed when I saw someone use them. The difference is that, while I see why they’re considered offensive, it’s about understanding the context and acknowledging that we can educate rather than censor. Fear shouldn’t be the solution. Germany, for example, has recently made strides in confronting its past, providing students with opportunities to learn about history and fully understand the gravity of their past mistakes. Instead of addressing these issues and helping players gain awareness, it seems like there’s an attempt to hide the history, creating fear around it rather than fostering understanding.
By proposing this list, we aimed to educate and prevent these issues in the future, but instead, there was resistance to even consider a proactive approach. This is disappointing, as it feels like the opportunity to address the problem and prevent it from recurring is being overlooked in favor of avoiding difficult conversations.
Request for Clarification
I find it disappointing that an already-resolved sanction has been re-opened without acknowledgment of the previous resolution. If further information is needed to verify this, please refer to the chat logs I am providing below.
Maybe need a better Staff communication on your part or something is greedy against people as can't even verify if the sanction has been fixed, completed or fullfilled. So before come here and post things already sorted out please, look for a staff member and tell if someone can already told if was fixed instead of looking for culprits first and then ask later ...
![[+]](/forums/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
KaridonChatwithMeMy own opinion:
Honestly, I feel a bit uncomfortable reopening this sanction notice. I’ll admit, I may have been at fault initially due to not researching the symbolism more thoroughly. I had found the name’s meaning interesting on an esoteric site, and I didn’t notice the sanction warning at first because I rarely used the character, only logging it a few times over several months.
During a recent event, I remembered the ship name and even joked about it with someone, not realizing I had forgotten to rename it. When I finally received a message about the issue, Karidon bastilled the character. We discussed it, and I shared my chat log with him, explaining how the name came about and why I had overlooked changing it. After that, I renamed the ship to Goldene_Sonne, as Karidon approved. He was understanding of the mistake, and I apologized, agreeing to be more careful with future names to avoid any further misunderstandings.
In any case, I understand your position. I only ask that admins consider the possibility of simple misunderstandings, as not every mistake reflects bad behavior or intention. As I’m not German, I don’t have an in-depth understanding of historical or cultural associations that might be more obvious to others, especially in terms of any negative connotations. This experience has been a learning opportunity, and I appreciate the patience and guidance.
I took it upon myself to create a guide for players to help avoid problematic names. With the help of a German friend, we compiled a list of names to avoid and provided explanations, including references to relevant laws and cultural context. We did this to help other players avoid similar mistakes. While this list is not an official Discovery resource, we share it internally with anyone who is interested. It's an ongoing project, updated regularly for players who want to be informed.
That said, my question remains:
¿Why did Wildkins not simply change the name of the vessel, despite saying they would, when in fact they didn’t?
I fully admitted my error and was willing to take responsibility rather than deny anything. As part of my experience in "ascending" from Bastille, I realized there’s an opportunity to help educate others about name meanings, symbolism, and historical context. We have compiled around 60 names so far, explaining why they should not be used, with relevant examples and backstories. However, when we considered publishing this on the forum, we realized it might lead to hostility or misunderstanding. To avoid that, we opted to offer it privately to anyone interested. Since the document is purely informative, it complies with German laws, as it does not encourage or endorse the use of any restricted names. It is simply a resource to broaden understanding for those, like me, who may not be European or familiar with these historical nuances.
There should be a balance of tolerance and education. We can’t assume players will know why certain names are issues without context. Instead, we should promote understanding of why these names are sensitive and how to avoid them. However, I’ve noticed that both staff and players can be quick to enforce rules without acknowledging their own possible oversights, often placing the burden solely on players.
Furthermore, the KPR (Rheinland Polizei) has a dedicated feedback post on the forum, and you can even reach Freyja directly on Discord for feedback (good or bad). Instead of immediately resorting to sanctions, players can message her about incidents, and she’ll apply her rule-set (which is admittedly quite strict) to address cases of bad behavior. Freyja even contacted me directly about this issue. Although she’s “not official” and was denied detailed clarification, she reached out to give me insights and made it clear that this shouldn’t happen again. She grounded me for a week without salary (as she actually provides in-game currency for KPR members) but also gave me a chance to fix my mistake. Freyja may come across as strict and reserved, but she understands when players are willing to listen, and she’s always open for feedback. If the opportunity to work with her on issues like these is available, why not make use of it, after all as players trying to make a faction death to resurge slightly and still get some fun instead of lock-on dumb characters, we approached on a good characters and bring a little tone of play to make things a little spicy and more flavored.
There should be a balance of tolerance and education. We can’t assume players will know why certain names are issues without context. Instead, we should promote understanding of why these names are sensitive and how to avoid them. However, I’ve noticed that both staff and players can be quick to enforce rules without acknowledging their own possible oversights, often placing the burden solely on players but never on themselves when commit drastic errors and some which can affect players.
P.D: I don't use Google anymore since about 4 years ago to search things, and as you can see there is not such warning and by that time Wikipedia was not the first one to came in the searches
Link
RE: Player Sanctioned: Uknown - TheKusari - 11-10-2024
Please revise your post and reply back with details explicitly related to this sanction. I don't appreciate having my time wasted about things that are otherwise unrelated. Ask for evidence first before disputing as outlined in the sanction notice's green text.
RE: Player Sanctioned: Uknown - Uknown - 11-10-2024
I appreciate the feedback and confirm that I know the specific report being referred to, as it was posted under #OpBlueArchive in the KPR Report page with my character, Reginleif. I understand my post may have unintentionally crossed into metagaming or powergaming territory by extending the charting activity beyond the boundaries appropriate for my character’s role, and I won’t repeat that action in the future.
Since I acknowledged this error already in my first response (with luxury of details), I want to be sure I understand what you’re looking for in this follow-up. If you have additional concerns or further guidance based on the post, I would be glad to address those directly.
To ensure clarity going forward, I’ve also reviewed the server rules with particular attention to these sections: General Conduct (1.0–1.3), ID and Combat Rules (2.0–2.4), and System Classifications (4.0).
I believe I understand which post you’re referring to, and I’m not requesting additional evidence for that post (cause i read and i can know about what is written on it) unless new evidence (such as additional forum-user | game-player evidence) is being considered.
I feel non-mandatory ask evidence for a post done with Reginleif on my own behalf (because again i know what i wrote without much intention to actually break or annoy a server rule)
If there is anything else I need to address or clarify beyond my post in the report page for Kaiserliche Polizei Rheinland message communication dumbs sub-forum
Since the Report was cited in this context, could you confirm whether it is being formally re-opened or referenced solely for context? I want to be certain I understand if further actions are needed on my part, or if it’s intended solely as background for the current sanction.
RE: Player Sanctioned: Uknown - TheKusari - 11-11-2024
Thank you for condensing it into a reasonable word count.
Your post mentions tailing a Vagrant player from Rheinland all the way to Inverness. This is okay, as long as you were in combat or engaged to it. However, no material in your post shows that you were in combat or reveals the character's name you were chasing. How do you know that Inverness was their last stop? Casually finding the Hive, Tuscaloosa and others, reporting on it with GIF screenshots reads more like you were trying to accomplish a different goal. This is where it crosses over into Metagaming.
The cited report is not being formally reopened from here. I linked it to reinforce my statement about being another offence and escalating to a sanction.
This is all I have to say on the matter.
Have a nice day.