Discovery Gaming Community

Previously, I allowed all factions to own systems regardless of their affiliation. We had enough systems for everyone then, but now, with 4.82 release, situation has changed. Clan systems are the only ones remaining, with exception of new House systems. But is it logical for some unlawful Edge Worlds factions to claim house systems, even while they are empty? And what's the use for an empty system?..

All this raises many issues that I wish to be discussed in this thread. How to make faction systems useful? What system owning rules should we have now? And how could players influence what's placed in those systems?

System owning

First of all, no more controlled/influenced systems. Each faction has one system, and this system is NOT an original one (which include Nomad systems, Tekagi's system, all pre-4.81 systems (Omega-15,47,49, Munich, Newcastle).

All other systems are free for all players. However...

there's roleplaying, and roleplaying allows to defend loyal NPCs, their bases, and even their systems. This shouldn't mean that all AW can go to Tau-29 cause there's Freeport 6 (Zoner base) and declare this system to be their zone of influence or whatever.

As for faction systems themselves, factions are completely free in what should be done there. They can impose their own taxes, rules of conduct, and any rules that they find suitable. These rules might even contradict main server rules.

How is it possible to make faction system look special? I'll say a few words later.

Roleplay restrictions

When a faction gets a home system, it does not become part of NPC faction. Players should be considered to be part of elite "Guard" faction that is independent from any NPC faction obligations. There are only a few borders that should not be surpassed.

- Lawful/unlawful - if your faction takes Red Hessian home system, you cannot fight for Rheinland Military (NPC or player).

- Outcasts/Corsairs - Most pirate factions are divided. Some are allied with Outcasts, some with Corsairs. I've posted list somewhere already, but will be good to re-post it here.

Corsairs:
Hogosha
Farmers Alliance
Gaians

Outcasts:
Lane Hackers
Liberty Rogues
Mollys
Red Hessians
Blood Dragons

Undecided:
The Order (sympathise Corsairs)
GC (sympathise Outcasts)
Xenos (independent)
Junkers (sympathise Outcasts)
LWB (unknown)
Unioners (unknown)

Undecided factions allow more freedom, obviously.

- Bretonia/Kusari. While ships of Kusari and Bretonia fight in Tau, you cannot claim Hiroshima (Kusari Navy home), announce that the war ended and you are now friends of Bretonia. It's a matter of storyline when the war will end, if it will ever end.

What this all should mean? For example, you want a Unioner home system (Mackenzie). You don't even need a Unioner tag. You can have any unlawful ID, including Freelancer ID. And you should roleplay for bad guys (pirates, smugglers etc).

Same for lawfuls. Why a lawful group cannot take Liberty Police system, even if they are not related to Liberty? The system is vacant, and new players won't be affected since it's not Colorado but Illinois, place where they cannot even enter unless they become very friendly with Liberty Police.

Player-built systems

Unfortunately, writing a tutorial on how to create systems will take much more time than creating a few myself. Therefore, I have a proposal that will make things easier for all of us.

Draw an outline of your system. You can do it in Freelancer Explorer, you can do it in any other program. Just make sure it looks like a FLE drawing. Like this:



Or this, which should give a better idea of what object density should be in a typical clan system:



Will be much easier for me to operate with your ideas than your code. As for special requests/wishes and names for places in your system, include all this into text describing your system.

That's all for now, and I'm expecting feedback.

Nice the HA group had a system you could buy things and have placed in game. I don't know much about it, but they had a system that you got system points gained by exploration the more systems you visited the more points you had. On top of that it was like 2 billion for the system, then super high rates for the stuff in them. Had to have both the system points and the cash. I always thought that was cool, but they also were updating like 4 times a year. Just my 2 cents.

Chucc

So... still a bit confused..

No vanilla ownership... can't buy Tau 23 then.. bummer.

No pre 4.81. .. Can't have a bidding war for O-49 or Newcastle?

Guard systems OK.. My problem is two divisions w/ two separate faction ID's.
(May be changing alignment of one division for "political" reasons..). Would it be more compatible for owning system to have both divisions tagged the same?

What about "empty" systems.. such as Chester or similar? Can these be purchased and designed? If so would there be any faction or alignment requirements due to the location of the system.

Dab, you can throw out your famous opinion, but would actually prefer some concrete direction from Admin to clarify this before ELF plunks down any change or design time.

Thanks in advance, Igiss
and thanks again for the great Mod..
Wolf.. new box doth rock too..

I've prohibited claiming vanilla systems right from the moment 4.81 was released some months ago. Not hot news.

Actually, you should understand my reasons. All vanilla systems are somehow involved in navigation and trade routes. All players might come there, even the players that are hostile to owning faction might come there trading or hunting for some item/ship. Restricting passage causes loads of trouble, and in the first half of this year we've experienced that.

On the other hand, creating a rule that obliges factions to let their enemies and everyone else pass through their systems and dock at their stations is completely illogical. Factions should decide themselves what rules should exist in their systems. That's what faction systems are for.

Current guard factions have one drawback, though... players need to work on their reputation to gain passage inside. It's known to be difficult for some factions, but, again, it's not ID buying... enough to be slightly white. Their default rep is -0.65, and -0,59 is already neutral.

I dont think is a very good idea. I believe it was QV who said this before (might be wrong), but clan systems are way out of the way. For one, how can a police faction police its systems? How can SF police Bretonia when the only thing they can do is sit in the guard system. If what you said under the role playing part means they can do it for all Bretonia than okay. I'm slightly confused about that part. Would it also mean that AW can help defend in Omicron Theta, much like SF can for Bretonia and RM for Rheinland?

However, the faction system bit that allows for anything. Likely the only people your going to see in your faction system, are your own faction members. Since the guard shoots almost everyone noone is going to go through the system. There is no point to it, making the guard system worthless to control. I think we need to allow vanilla system ownership for everyone. But require admin approval. So then, say the HF can't nab Sigma-13 as there are no Lane Hackers there and no reason the HF should have it. But restrictions to only the newest systems isn't very good. People aren't just gonna meander into an empty dead-end system. They don't have a reason to. I say, open the vanilla systems, all systems with the exclusion of New York and the unknowns. And then require admin approval. Along with the costs of buying it.

Right now, I see little point in owning a system with these rules. You can't actually set down strict laws and rules in systems (For example, AW can't for Theta, GoR can't for Alpha, etc.). There really wouldn't be any point to owning a system anymore.

EDIT: Igiss posted ahead of me.

Yes, restricting access could cause some problems. But thats one of the things your supposed to have to deal with when entering hostile territory. Really, you can get wherever you want by going around instead of straight by an enemy. Skirt the edges of the system, stay in asteroid fields, and you won't be seen. Restricting can't really be done very well. But simply moving factions to out-of-the-way systems doesn't help us. Yeah, no more restricting things, but then, the factions have no use to a system. As explained above. They can make laws and things in a system... ALL BY THEMSELVES. There is no one else there for those to effect. Making ownership useless.

hmm... in my mind, a truly role-playing server and community (not that this isnt a great one, by the by, it is!) would allow a faction to buy a pre-4.81 system, ie Dublin, as long as its relevant to the faction's rp and alignment. obviously, other people dont share that view, which is why you have this rule in place.

the problem with the guard systems, and this has been said before, is that for the most part, they have no strategic value whatsoever. the only one ive been to that would actually be somewhat worthwhile to have is Illinois, because it stradles the shortcut from NY/Colorado to sigma-13.

thats why i think factions should be able to purchase a pre-4.81 system, if it of course fits. obviously, it would need to be cleared by admins beforehand.

i was never to here to see the community without this rule in effect, so i cant really talk about this. i never saw what the deal was before the rule was enacted. what DID happen btw? lol

EDIT: also, how is that fair to the new factions. the old ones get to keep their original systems like omicron theta but we get stuck with some silly one way out in the middle on nowhere. :(

Sorry, another addendum.

There were restriction issues in the past, yes. But that was fixed when factions were given one system and only one. I don't think I've seen any issues caused by restricting a system from a certain faction. SF polices Bretonia and tell pirates to leave, and pirates fight them. Thats how it is supposed to work. The only issues this has caused is when SCRA tried policing Omega-49, but that was because they didn't have any control over it, or any RP reason for it.

Igiss, just a little correction to your Outcasts/Corsairs alliances list, it is so in the game:

Outcasts allies:
Liberty Rogues
Lane Hackers
Golden Chrysanthemums
Blood Dragons
Mollys
Red Hessians

Undecided:
The Order (sympathise Corsairs)
Xenos (independent)
Junkers (sympathise Outcasts)
LWB (unknown)
Unioners (unknown)
Bundschuh (unknown)

at least my reps on Ace.Bernard.Fokke[GoR] say that. Also, the Rheinland Military/Police and Bretonia Armed Forces are neutral (because the Kusari situation), but I guess that is solved by the Corporations as they are all nice and red.

Anyway, I wanted to say that I have to agre with the people here... not much point in owning a system if no one's going to come to it...

I'd like to be wrong though...

Dab,Dec 4 2006, 10:15 AM Wrote:The only issues this has caused is when SCRA tried policing Omega-49, but that was because they didn't have any control over it, or any RP reason for it.

lol yea, but that is in past and done with. no point in going on about it anymore, seeing as we havent tried to do that in quite some time, so drop it Dab, please.

i wont pollute this thread anymore, sorry... :nono:

Aeon, Igiss was talking about how it was causing disruption. So I was telling him the only time it did, and why. I am not the one needing to drop it. You didn't need to say anything at all about it.