12-28-2009, 01:40 PM
12-28-2009, 01:49 PM
With respect Mang - you dont seem to know the science behind this.
Gallians use Hydrocarbons for fuel. that is to say they extract Deuterium from the hydrocarbons for fusion reactions.
Deuterium is simply another form of hydrogen - it is heavier, it has an extra neutron inside its nucleus. it doesnt effect how it reacts as a chemical
(it will still burn, it will still form water, methane, and nice oily sludge - hell, all of us have a certain percentage of Deuterium inside us right now!).
Gallians use Hydrocarbons for fuel. that is to say they extract Deuterium from the hydrocarbons for fusion reactions.
Deuterium is simply another form of hydrogen - it is heavier, it has an extra neutron inside its nucleus. it doesnt effect how it reacts as a chemical
(it will still burn, it will still form water, methane, and nice oily sludge - hell, all of us have a certain percentage of Deuterium inside us right now!).
12-28-2009, 02:10 PM
Been talking some more about this.
There is certainly a distinction between MINING H-Fuel and TRADING it.
The problem is one similar to what happened to Alien Organisms.
That being said, the solution could also be there as well.
Our miners suck up everything you need to make H-Fuel right there on the spot.
You could make small mining zones around the miners that sptt out H-Fuel.
That's the mining part solved - but what about the trading part?
This is important because there are two (or more) parties involved in this.
- The GMG who would do the mining (and get the greatest mining bonus).
- The traders who haul it. Kishiro is our current trading partner in this.
1) With the mining system. Maximum profit should be occurring when both miner and trader are working together. Working separately should give good profit - equal to standard trade routes - but not optimal.
2) If the drop chance in a mining zone is set for each area, then 'weak' areas like Sigma-13 and Hokkaido would give a lower chance of a drop than 'strong' areas like Sigma-19 and Okinawa.
3) If the drop chance is set for the commodity, regardless of area, then there would likely only be one or two systems with mining areas in them.
4) GMG Miners would give the best drop results.
5) I WOULD PROPOSE REMOVING LOCAL SALE POINTS FOR H-FUEL
6) Let the cheapest buy points for H-Fuel be Manneheim Station and Osaka, or Shinagawa depending on ideal distance. These are only suggestions, there could be other in other directions such as Freeport 9.
- They offer a relative distance for GMG miners to travel on their own and take piracy risks.
- They offer a shorter distance for traders to haul on their own to high-price destinations (of course the profit/distance ratio would be appropriate).
7) The maximal profit for H-Fuel can be established for traders/miners working together in the Sigmas, facing piracy risks in the process.
IT IS ESSENTIAL TO NOTE that in all of this - the profitability of H-Fuel should be equal at least to Plutonium. if it isnt - then no bugger is going to bother with H-Fuel at all! The whole exercise will be a waste of time...
There is certainly a distinction between MINING H-Fuel and TRADING it.
The problem is one similar to what happened to Alien Organisms.
That being said, the solution could also be there as well.
Our miners suck up everything you need to make H-Fuel right there on the spot.
You could make small mining zones around the miners that sptt out H-Fuel.
That's the mining part solved - but what about the trading part?
This is important because there are two (or more) parties involved in this.
- The GMG who would do the mining (and get the greatest mining bonus).
- The traders who haul it. Kishiro is our current trading partner in this.
1) With the mining system. Maximum profit should be occurring when both miner and trader are working together. Working separately should give good profit - equal to standard trade routes - but not optimal.
2) If the drop chance in a mining zone is set for each area, then 'weak' areas like Sigma-13 and Hokkaido would give a lower chance of a drop than 'strong' areas like Sigma-19 and Okinawa.
3) If the drop chance is set for the commodity, regardless of area, then there would likely only be one or two systems with mining areas in them.
4) GMG Miners would give the best drop results.
5) I WOULD PROPOSE REMOVING LOCAL SALE POINTS FOR H-FUEL
6) Let the cheapest buy points for H-Fuel be Manneheim Station and Osaka, or Shinagawa depending on ideal distance. These are only suggestions, there could be other in other directions such as Freeport 9.
- They offer a relative distance for GMG miners to travel on their own and take piracy risks.
- They offer a shorter distance for traders to haul on their own to high-price destinations (of course the profit/distance ratio would be appropriate).
7) The maximal profit for H-Fuel can be established for traders/miners working together in the Sigmas, facing piracy risks in the process.
IT IS ESSENTIAL TO NOTE that in all of this - the profitability of H-Fuel should be equal at least to Plutonium. if it isnt - then no bugger is going to bother with H-Fuel at all! The whole exercise will be a waste of time...
12-28-2009, 02:36 PM
Was idea of mining two different kind of minerals and bringing them to GMG bases to make fuel being investigated?
That way you dont have to remove the fuel purchase points
That way you dont have to remove the fuel purchase points
12-28-2009, 02:40 PM
' Wrote:There will not be Hydrogen mining due to local sale point balance and player congestion issues.
Also mining next to a dock point = no bueno.
This thread may have run its course.
Make a new commodity, un-processed Hydrogen
prob solved
Hell, ANYTHING 'mined' should be an entirely seperate unprocessed comodity.
12-28-2009, 04:06 PM
I disagree with mining any component of HFuel or HFuel itself (the latter makes no sense at all), processed or unprocessed. The GMG has mastered He-3, Hydrogen, and Deuterium mining with Kishiro's efficient stationary miners in the Crow nebula and Hiryu cloud. There is no need for mobile gas miners.
If the GMG were to find a profitable resource in dangerous territory such as the Donryu nebula, there would be a need for mobile miners and protection (teamwork!). The Alien Orgs only made sense because those were the only resources GMG found in the Donryu, and they were an in-game failure because they can't have their own dedicated economy (or possibly even compete with Samura's market). Xenon is a perfect substitute because of its industrial applications.
If the GMG were to find a profitable resource in dangerous territory such as the Donryu nebula, there would be a need for mobile miners and protection (teamwork!). The Alien Orgs only made sense because those were the only resources GMG found in the Donryu, and they were an in-game failure because they can't have their own dedicated economy (or possibly even compete with Samura's market). Xenon is a perfect substitute because of its industrial applications.
12-28-2009, 04:47 PM
Nice ideas and thoughts I'm for some but I cringed at the major impact other ideas could have.
I'm for mining a new Xenon gas in the Doryu Cloud and Beta System. It would be more suiting to the fun conflicts we have with OCs over commercializing their system heheh.
I'm not up for GMG to be mining any of the three components that make up H-fuel. GMG, through Kishiro technology, has a much more efficient method for this using the stationary mining platforms scattered all over the clouds of our space (I think we are at 42 now not sure). The other main reason why I wouldn't like that too much is that adding rock to our nebulas would completely change it's atmosphere and how we operate in it. I love our clouds in GMG space. No kidding, I really do. I love the blue haze that has occasional lightning flashes in the distance that will temporarily revealy the silhouette of a nearby stationary miner that you wouldn't have realized was so close if not for the lightning. I love the sudden emergence into oxygen fields and having to either circumvent them or fly an erratic pattern to get through them. I love flying into our "open" pockets. Exclusion zones in the middle of nowhere. They are fantastic spots to sit in and let scanners see further than those in the gas. If our primary gas clouds became mining zones it would all be full of rocks.... I certainly can't say that I want to be involved with changing those beautiful Vanilla clouds into another asteroid filled pinball game.
I'm for mining a new Xenon gas in the Doryu Cloud and Beta System. It would be more suiting to the fun conflicts we have with OCs over commercializing their system heheh.
I'm not up for GMG to be mining any of the three components that make up H-fuel. GMG, through Kishiro technology, has a much more efficient method for this using the stationary mining platforms scattered all over the clouds of our space (I think we are at 42 now not sure). The other main reason why I wouldn't like that too much is that adding rock to our nebulas would completely change it's atmosphere and how we operate in it. I love our clouds in GMG space. No kidding, I really do. I love the blue haze that has occasional lightning flashes in the distance that will temporarily revealy the silhouette of a nearby stationary miner that you wouldn't have realized was so close if not for the lightning. I love the sudden emergence into oxygen fields and having to either circumvent them or fly an erratic pattern to get through them. I love flying into our "open" pockets. Exclusion zones in the middle of nowhere. They are fantastic spots to sit in and let scanners see further than those in the gas. If our primary gas clouds became mining zones it would all be full of rocks.... I certainly can't say that I want to be involved with changing those beautiful Vanilla clouds into another asteroid filled pinball game.
12-28-2009, 07:48 PM
I agree that rocks in the Gas Nebula's would kinda take away from the feel of things, is there no alternative to this?
12-28-2009, 08:12 PM
Guys - gotta read what I have been suggesting.
What I am suggesting isnt 'pure' mining.
It is a 'cheat' that simulates us extracting a load of H-Fuel from the stationary gas miners scattered across our fields. The stationary miner does the actual gas extraction and blending to spit out the finished product for us.
A very small field - just enough for one or two ships - surrounding each miner.
Hopefully this will make it less work for the devs to implement, as Dusty said making a wreck-based system would require more effort.
It should also minimise the appearance of rocks in the systems.
Extracting pure H-Fuel from the miners would mean deleting our local sell points - and only being able to buy H-Fuel from a farther collection point, somewhere to give pirates a fair chance at collecting their share.
Try it! If it works, then it is something you could try for other systems with stationary models in them - giving them a 'use' beyond scenery.
What I am suggesting isnt 'pure' mining.
It is a 'cheat' that simulates us extracting a load of H-Fuel from the stationary gas miners scattered across our fields. The stationary miner does the actual gas extraction and blending to spit out the finished product for us.
A very small field - just enough for one or two ships - surrounding each miner.
Hopefully this will make it less work for the devs to implement, as Dusty said making a wreck-based system would require more effort.
It should also minimise the appearance of rocks in the systems.
Extracting pure H-Fuel from the miners would mean deleting our local sell points - and only being able to buy H-Fuel from a farther collection point, somewhere to give pirates a fair chance at collecting their share.
Try it! If it works, then it is something you could try for other systems with stationary models in them - giving them a 'use' beyond scenery.
12-29-2009, 03:00 AM
Picking up loads from gas miners is lame.
I agree something needs to be done... having a GMG without any G to M is kind of stupid. How about just fields of Hydrogen rocks? Done. Easy.
Either that or you gotta make some new form of mining in which GMG-ID'd ships with special equipment will generate H-Fuel or Hydrogen in their holds every x seconds while parked in the proper nebulae.
You can balance this out by reducing overall ship power to basically cruising levels while "mining". Maybe turn off shields to take in the gas... to keep the miners honest about walking away while mining. Place the fields along GC/Dragon patrol routes. Whatever you need to do.
But still, it's probably easier to just have fields of frozen H for GMG to get at.
---
Also, (as a side note) I don't agree with alien organism mining being stupid or a failure. You can make $4.5m in a 20-minute run. It just has nothing to do with the GMG.
I agree something needs to be done... having a GMG without any G to M is kind of stupid. How about just fields of Hydrogen rocks? Done. Easy.
Either that or you gotta make some new form of mining in which GMG-ID'd ships with special equipment will generate H-Fuel or Hydrogen in their holds every x seconds while parked in the proper nebulae.
You can balance this out by reducing overall ship power to basically cruising levels while "mining". Maybe turn off shields to take in the gas... to keep the miners honest about walking away while mining. Place the fields along GC/Dragon patrol routes. Whatever you need to do.
But still, it's probably easier to just have fields of frozen H for GMG to get at.
---
Also, (as a side note) I don't agree with alien organism mining being stupid or a failure. You can make $4.5m in a 20-minute run. It just has nothing to do with the GMG.