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Call this a mini-vent, or an explanation thread, or whatever you like. I'm a bit ticked, either way.

Why is it that when we do some RP it's terrible, the worst thing seen on the server, and should be stopped in it's tracks because it violates the principles that YOU think we ought to play? Yet your RP is wonderful, when we're not doing anything else different from what you're doing?

And lastly, when there are actually NO server rules being violated, why is it that complaints are being sent to the admins about it?

My specific issue is the feedback and complaints that I'm hearing about the BHG| / Corsair non-agression pact. Our role-play in bringing this about comes from how in-game activities have results. They may not be the results you were thinking that would happen, but they still occur.

Here's where the role-play on the forum happened that brought this about: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69287

This included several hours of in-game role-play, as well as many, many long and involved skype discussions outside of the game environment - back door communications, as any good political agreement would demand.

And lo, this whole non-agreesion pact was perfectly acceptable because it tied in with all of our role-play. If you actually read the wording of this pact, you'll see that not only are no rules violated, but we're still quite capable of shooting at each other in certain parts of Sirius. We simply have chosen NOT to shoot at each other in some areas is all.

Quote:1) The Corsair Empire and the BHG| and BHG|Core will enter into a non-agression pact, effective immediately, for the following;
All Omicron Systems
All Omega systems with the exception of Omega 3, 7, 15, and 56.
Notice that house space (Bretonia) is not included here, and in those areas where Corsairs like to pirate - the trade lanes in Omega 3 and 7 - the pact is not valid.

2) BHG| and BHG|Core ships will not enter Omicron Gamma or any of the Corsair home systems beyond Gamma without permission from a member of the families, and will be escorted during any time that they would need to be there.

3) No Corsair ships shall enter Omega 56, or shall close to within 20K of the BHG| station Rostock, in Omega 15.

4) The non-agression pact shall not be vaild in any space not already mentioned, due to contracts and needs of the Corsair peoples. However, in the space mentioned it will not be rendered invalid by the actions of rebel or rogue individuals of either side. All parties retain the right to defend themselves.
All this means is that, as per faction rules, if an indy player on either side wants to shoot, they're more than able to do so, as this RP is something we've come up with and is a variation on things.

Or, as was so succintly phrased here:
' Wrote:Funny that, some people tends to think a "non agression pact" = "alliance contract".

Just sayin'.

People, we are NOT allied with the Corsairs.

First off, that would be a violation of our all of our ID's - because Corsairs can't ally with lawfuls (with a couple of exceptions) and Bounty Hunters can't ally with unlawfuls.

Secondly, an alliance tends to indicate that we're new best friends, their women are having our babies, our ships are docking at their stations and such. That's not happening - with us. (Looks at Order / SCRA / Zoners / Hessians...)

Read what I wrote here, in the RP where this came about:
Quote:
Seriously - you and the Order are nearly shooting each other now, for reasons of your own. And our philosophy that the enemy of my enemy may also be my enemy still applies here. We agree to this - and you're sitting pretty. You have an effectively secure border now, without us to contend with."

"Now, what does my Guild get? Less chance to earn money, because we won't be able to fulfill our contracts. While it frees up some of our strength to deal with the Order - it does nothing as far as actually reducing or changing anything - we already hunt the Hessians, the Coalition, the Order, and the Outcasts. And we already fight you - we simply prefer not to if we can avoid it."

That's exactly what an NAP with the Corsairs give the Hunters - free reign to deal with Nomads, Das Wilde, Outcasts, and the Order AND the allies of the Order. And those are the people we SHOULD be fighting against, because they're the ones with 'Nomad' tech, which is what we want.

My question, then, is really quite simple. Why is there an attempt being made to force two major groups that encompass four official factions and have a player base of more than 100 active players to fit into something that we no longer all fit in?

You'll note that during the recent Order/GMG invasion of Gamma - the BHG| / BHG|Core received permission from the official factions as per the NAP to enter Gamma to engage OUR enemies only. (Even if we did accidently kill a Corsair ship...) We did not attack any of the GMG or Zoner ships - we simply shot the Order ships. Then we left.

What I find interesting is that this NAP was hammered out in May - nearly 5 months ago. And was something that came about over discussions and through ongong role-play from months before that. Suddenly it's a big issue - when it is now convenient because the RP of the Order and THEIR allies has degenerated to the point that they find themselves in a shooting war.
Quote:(Looks at Order / SCRA / Zoners / Hessians...)

I was agreeing with you the entire time... And then I read this. It seemed a serious and reasonable vent or something like that, then fingers got pointed. What did we do?

Other than that, I agree, people do think "Non-Aggression" means "We're-all-family-now." And that needs to stop.
' Wrote:I was agreeing with you the entire time... And then I read this. It seemed a serious and reasonable vent or something like that, then fingers got pointed. What did we do?

As I said in the last paragraph - I hadn't heard anything until the big battle. After that my skype went nuts with people telling me that we shouldn't be doing what we were doing - and when I was told that they were going to take it to the admins...

(And no, I'm not saying who said it. It bothers me that people complain about this - and there's a BAF / Molly NAP that's no more heinous that this is. If we're going to have a dynamic game, then realize that politics and ongoing role play changes things. If we're not, then let us know so we can all be good little robots and blindly follow the script.)



agmen, you will know why people are screaming?
because only what they see is:

BHG+Corsairs... and that is terrible for them

noone is seeing order capital ships undocking from freeport 9 (yes, that freeport that is in rp almost destroyed and still repaired) entering gamma only to die there... ( strange no? order attacking gamma from theta....)

and this NAP between corsairs and core perfectly fit in current roleplay.
you dont need to fight corsairs and order in the same time, and we can use someone who will damage or stop order before they enter gamma.

so when peopel are screaming and complaining, let them.. that only show that this roleplay is good ...


The first time I ran into this No Agression Pact thing, I liked it a lot. Really. The idea itself fitted the broken good relations between Order and Corsairs perfectly and was roleplayed the best way, so in the beginning there was nothing to complain about. Well, let's say that the problems came right after BHG Core ran into conflict with Zoners and then the YALALALA Corsairs finally led Theta and Gamma into large multi-sided war.

The Order thing: official Order| wasn't taking part in any assaults on Gamma or fights against Corsairs in Theta.

Well, the multi-siding may be one of the reasons why people complain about the NAP. Zoners keep a lot of relations with different unlawfuls that is sometimes a reason for House Military or Guild to accuse them in picking up a side, so, when the conflict between Zoners and YALALALA Corsairs transformed into a full scale war, Theta was crowded by numerous factions.

Zoners performed their own strike with the help of GMG. At the same time, other groups were acting their own way. Corsairs were protecting them from everyone. Then BHG comes and attacks only their own targets. When we take a look at Gamma and there are Zoners, GMG, maybe RHA, maybe SCRA, maybe indie Order ships, maybe Outcasts on the one side versus BHG and Corsairs on the other side, but none of them is allied and everybody attacks only their own enemies to avoid ID violations and at the same time nobody is allied to avoid ID violations or diplomacy issues (in exeption of Zoners and GMG) - that's weird.

And, well, a lot of people were complaining about the fact that BHG ships are allowed to Gamma. NAP was nice when it only affected war between Core and the Order. When it runs into Core aiding Corsairs in the war that hardly affects Core in any way, peolple get unhappy.

When Corsairs are in conflict with the people who supplied them for many years and suddenly allowed the Guild/Core that hunted the Corsair nation from the very beginning to enter their main system, that seems to be too much.

The Zoner thing added a lot of points to discuss and this is one of them.
' Wrote:The Order thing: official Order| wasn't taking part in any assaults on Gamma or fights against Corsairs in Theta.

The offical Order| faction is reaping the consequences of its indies actions for their inactions. The Order is hostile to COrsairs now. Deal with it.


I've taken BHG down in Dublin and have had to deal with massive swarms of Bottlenoses in omega 7 (Jihad Joe remembers that day I bet) and I've watch a Mako in Gamma waste 2 Gebs and a Recon Cruiser before a Sarissa killed it. I quite like the way things are.
I just wanted to say this on behalf of whole TCG:

We really don'€™t care for BHG| and BHG|Core roleplay'€¦.your alliances and Non-agression pacts are yours and yours alone, you can do whatever you like, we have no problem with it. We will continue to fight against you and anyone taking your side in our little fights. If you shoot on us or our allies, we will shoot back on you and your allies, friends, sympathizers'€¦That'€™s all! Thanks for your attention.

Quote:The offical Order| faction is reaping the consequences of its indies actions for their inactions. The Order is hostile to COrsairs now. Deal with it.
Yeah. You love to tell people to face the consequences, so, I suppose, you are a really cool guy. But that's the thread named "BHG|Core role-play", not the "We're Corsairs, we pwn u in roleplay und pvp". And, well, sure thing, let's treat official factions by the actions of lolwutting indies. Come on, the world isn't weird enough.
Quote:I've taken BHG down in Dublin and have had to deal with massive swarms of Bottlenoses in omega 7 (Jihad Joe remembers that day I bet) and I've watch a Mako in Gamma waste 2 Gebs and a Recon Cruiser before a Sarissa killed it. I quite like the way things are.
Start spreading the news, I’m leaving today
I want to be a part of it - New York, New York
These vagabond shoes, are longing to stray
Right through the very heart of it - New York,
New York...
Ach. People will whine Agmen. A lot of really odd alliances and enemies were made in the course of the Zoner-bounty-escalating-to-a-fullblown-fragfest. Corsairs got called out for shooting up a loose ally. You get called out for picking off targets of opportunity while unlawfuls were distracting them...

I still think the core of the problem, pun intended, is that people don't get that CORE is no longer actively hunting unlawfuls. They have other goals, as such, they're not really bountyhunters anymore. Drill that into everyone's head and I think a lot of this animosity will go kapoof.
' Wrote:I just wanted to say this on behalf of whole TCG:

We really don'€™t care for BHG| and BHG|Core roleplay'€¦.your alliances and Non-agression pacts are yours and yours alone, you can do whatever you like, we have no problem with it. We will continue to fight against you and anyone taking your side in our little fights. If you shoot on us or our allies, we will shoot back on you and your allies, friends, sympathizers'€¦That'€™s all! Thanks for your attention.

Hmm.. On behalf of all the Miller Family foundation boys and girls, I can only reply in one way.. Singing our drinking song, which reverberates through the bars daily on Dabadoru, Rostock, Capetown, Deshima, and Briesen stations :
[color=#CC0000]What's that awfull smell on the evening breeze?
It's the goddamned TCG eating Limburger cheese!
Singing Glorious! Glorious!
One keg of beer for the family of us!
Glory be to go there ain't more of us!
Because one of us could drink it all - DAMN NEAR!
That is all I have to say about that.

Maersk Miller,
Core Guildmaster & head of the Miller Family Foundation for Bountyhunters.
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