Discovery Gaming Community

This is a personal enquiry, not a Bowex one - no doubt they'll be interested in the answer though.

What is your policy on indies and trade restriction infringements? The reason I ask this is because of the repeated fines you lot have dropped on Bowex for the actions of indies. Note, there is nothing we can do about them, because FR2 does not cover non-canon player driven conflicts. I honestly don't understand what you're asking from Bowex. We told them not to trade there - we couldn't actually do anything more.

Furthermore, I've never seen Rhienland fine a non-Bowex trade faction for it's indies' actions before. I can pull examples of Interspace, IMG and other indies falling foul of the same regulations without their player faction taking any flak. I was under the impression that the clause that applies to corporations was only for members of the factions themselves.

The reason I say this now, is because yet more indies have just been caught. I'd quite like the clarification for future reference.

EDIT: I have absolutely no idea why I'm seeing this post as centralised. There's no BB code here to make it that way. :mellow:

At first let me say, it's nothing against Bowex or their roleplay. It was the result of some inRP reasons and the vague definition of "canon roleplay".

For me, canon roleplay is the restriction given by Igiss and reflected by the respective ID.
I pointed to FR2 for the following reason:

The Bowex-ID says

Quote:Cannot participate in any unlawful actions except against Kusari lawful and Kusari commercial factions.

As result of it, the carrying persons cannot smuggle by their ID.
Because official factions are responsible for their indies, Bowex was contacted after an official member was caught.

(Until here it was official only)

After your response and the explicit mention of an indie from your side (consider this as FR2), there was a proposal from the RFP so the Bowex faction would more fit their political affiliations. Namely to remove every Bowex - indie from the Rheinland criminal database (which marks every entry as hostile to the lawful members).

(As inRP reason it's declared in the laws of Rheinland in article 2 paragraph §2.6.1. [as mentioned].)

After this fines the RFP would has returned to the standard "official punishment only". But Bowex refuses.
To finish the whole conflict, the BAF sent the treaty to the Rheinland officials. It contains:

' Wrote:6. Bowex will pay any and all outstanding fines to Rheinland.

The outstanding fines (which include the indies [not only the in the first message listed]) have therefore be paid by Bowex. Because there were some more violators (indies) during the Rheinland-Bretonia conflict, they were included to the payment. (after consulting with the RM)

After it, the RFP had finished the punishment of Bowex for his indies and, according to the Bowex rules, they have to pay said fines and on their own again.

I'd like to pop in and say, that unlawful action is not smuggling. It is piracy and open attacks on not hostile targets.

For proof, see Zoner ID ans Zoner smugglers, who are breaking the law by smuggling, but are not breaking ID rules.

' Wrote:I'd like to pop in and say, that unlawful action is not smuggling. It is piracy and open attacks on not hostile targets.

I would like to see this in admin green. (If there is a thread, point me to it.)
If it wouldn't be unlawful, then it would be named trading. (that's also a vague definition)

Furthermore there was an thread about the .86 IDs (which is now marked as invisible). This showed something like the following line: "Cannot smuggle contraband, declared by the house laws" - which is an better definition and confirmed what I wrote.

' Wrote:I would like to see this in admin green. (If there is a thread, point me to it.)
If it wouldn't be unlawful, then it would be named trading. (that's also a vague definition)

Furthermore there was an thread about the .86 IDs (which is now marked as invisible). This showed something like the following line: "Cannot smuggle contraband, declared by the house laws" - which is an better definition and confirmed what I wrote.

There are no sanctions for smuggling when ID stated that.

The thread was a joke. Forget it.

EDIT: Oh. And why do you think IC can smuggle Blood Diamonds? Because it is not against ID rules.

' Wrote:There are no sanctions for smuggling when ID stated that.

There are also no sanctions for mixed tech and/or also no renaming for carrying a faction tag, if the player isn't in the faction. So your argument is void.

' Wrote:EDIT: Oh. And why do you think IC can smuggle Blood Diamonds? Because it is not against ID rules.

Quote:Can lawfully land on the bases of: Golden Chrysanthemums and Red Hessians

Blood diamonds = RHA product

rwx, you are missing the point. IC ID has line that no unlawful action can be made. But smuggling is allowed.

There are sanctions for mixed equipment. And there are rename notices.

' Wrote:rwx, you are missing the point. IC ID has line that no unlawful action can be made. But smuggling is allowed.

ok, a bit more text...
IC is, by canon RP, allied with the RHA. Therefore they can by canon RP smuggle (in rheinland/their products/whatever). (Again only an assumption as result of the missing clarification.)

' Wrote:There are sanctions for mixed equipment. And there are rename notices.

Yeah, but it seems they aren't consistently done. And this means to me, the admins only sanctionate "important" things.

I have a small question about the law, in detail how the import is regulated exactly..

Artikel 3 §3 says

Quote:The above regulations applying to Interspace, Ageira, DSE, Orbital spa & cruise and Cryer are valid for the entirety of Rheinland unless otherwise specified, which means the above corporations are only allowed to haul these goods legally within and out of Rheinland.

the above regulations talk about exporting goods. so far so good. 3§3 also regulates the hauling within Rheinland, unless otherwise specified.

Artikel 3 §6 specifies :
Rheinland opens the borders for any incoming legal goods

That means, Rheinland opens the borders for any incoming legal goods. That means, i am allowed to haul for example Gold into Rheinland(makes sense, as gold is not the worst to happen to Rheinland), or basic alloy(Good to make better alloys to construct ships, right? ).

Why is it then, that there are some officers, that stop and scan you, and require you to drop the goods, that are imported, or scare you with death sentence for importing needed goods into Rheinland.

//imagine a war between the USA and Europe. USA in dire need of oil, to produce enough fuel, and raw metals as they run out of ammunition. norway stayed neutral in that war, and some norwegian companies oil tankers manage to slip through the european controlled borders(embargo vs USA). Now they reach an US harbor, but a police boat stops them, and they are asked to drop their cargo or get sunk(nevermind the environmental problems in this example) because they are no listed US company.
Does that make sense?

I find that not very realistic and inRP, and would like a statement of the Rheinland Federal Police..
(esp. from renate bommel, of whom i once ran away after she scanned me and ordered me to drop things, because another trader appeared and escaped, she followed him, then I left the scene, and she cought my by switching to her RM indie korvette and continued her "drop it now, you are not in the 3§3 list, even though i imported and escaped her control before..)

Rwx, there's a reason nobody will accept you trying to pin indie blame on them.
For instance, those two transports could have been yours, used intentionally to extort Bowex.
Not that anyone believes they were, but there's no way to prevent that.
When i was leading the Old Guard, we actually had someone use the i/l trick to frame a member for a whole host of server violations.
As for the Liberty embargo, i would once again like to mention that any form of embargo against Liberty (or any embargo from Liberty against Rheinland) itself violates canon roleplay as set forth by the Word of Igiss in his house descriptions for 4.86.

' Wrote:Liberty Corporations
The corporations of Liberty continue to actively trade with all three Sirius Houses. Surprisingly enough, even the border with Rheinland is open for Liberty shippers, since formally the war still allows imports into both houses by private companies. Yet, Liberty trade with Rheinland has reduced significantly, surpassed by trading with Kusari which is on the increase since the new, more liberal government came to power in the House. Many of the Rheinland shipments are sent through Kusari these days. Despite increased distance, the way through Kusari is often safer than going through the war-torn independent worlds of Bering and Hudson.

' Wrote:Rheinland Corporations
The corporations of Rheinland did not suffer any significant setbacks as a result of the Liberty war. Both parties agreed not to fire at civilian targets, and, unlike the case with Bretonia and Kusari, economic ties between two nations were not completely cut. The war-torn area of the Hudson and Bering independent worlds was not quite suitable for trade, of course, and many shipments now go through the relatively safe systems of Sigma and Kusari.