Discovery Gaming Community

' Wrote:Not exactly. The Corporation is almost certainly not concerned with the survival of an individual ship.

You cant bring RL into this stuff and you know it. Even if we talk about disco universe only, however, the "corporation" does not care about the ship since it's replaced, but does care about the lost capital on the cargo.

Every ship should have a CM. They are also so cheap that there is absolutely no logical reason why every ship does not have a CM. The only reason some ships do not have a CM is the desire to make some of them EXTREMELY susceptible to CDs. So even in the fictional universe we are suspending logic.

' Wrote:Yesterday I held up a trader full of 10 million credits worth of cargo. They were moving Ship Hull Panels or something, and I asked where. When I discovered their destination a bit of quick legwork told me they were heading to a station that granted them 10 million in credits.

Ship hull panels are used for base maintenance and production. They probably weren't selling them at all, just consuming them. The only thing they lost was the capital to purchase them. If they paid you on top of the purchase price, its just more money. You need to learn a bit more about what's going on.

' Wrote:Ship hull panels are used for base maintenance and production. They probably weren't selling them at all, just consuming them. The only thing they lost was the capital to purchase them. If they paid you on top of the purchase price, its just more money. You need to learn a bit more about what's going on.

Consuming them at the NPC station they were taking them to? At any rate, regardless of the destination I had them held up and they should have paid to continue moving through the area. They didn't and they continued to move through anyway. That's not okay.

' Wrote:His (or her) profit is 10M and you demand 8 and later 16? This is sanctionable...

EDIT: What ID had your ship during interaction?
Traders are blood of Discovery, what happens when blood stops to flow? And seriously, convoys idea looks cool on paper, try to find 3 traders on one route to form convoy when Europe sleeps. It's rather hard... But at least one pirate (and probably no hunters/police/navy in close proximity online) will be spotted for sure.

I was GC they were Interspace. Just running goods through Shikoku. I don't see how ransoming someone and RPing it is sanctionable.

' Wrote:You are a TARGET! PERIOD. Any other way of looking at it from your perspective as the trader is NOT in role-play. Think of yourself as a small field mouse running through a cage full of hungry cats. You are PREY. NOT the predator.

You seem to be simply unable to look at the situation from another side than your limited space-is-dangerous-weaken-the-weak-and-strengthen-the-strong "hardcore reality lover" point of view.

One last time for you: It is also a game.

A game is meant to be fun for every participating party. That includes... guess what... traders.

Being that mouse you describe is no fun (or you are a masochist, or - rather likely - you have no clue what it means to fly and roleplay trader as existing, real characters (!) not as "I need money, trade / second" cashmachines at the moment).

That's why some oorp balancing changes need to exist. Big surprise, isn't it?

' Wrote:You seem to be simply unable to look at the situation from another side than your limited space-is-dangerous-weaken-the-weak-and-strengthen-the-strong "hardcore reality lover" point of view.

One last time for you: It is also a game.

A game is meant to be fun for every participating party. That includes... guess what... traders.

Being that mouse you describe is no fun (or you are a masochist, or - rather likely - you have no clue what it means to fly and roleplay trader as existing, real characters (!) not as "I need money, trade / second" cashmachines at the moment).

That's why some oorp balancing changes need to exist. Big surprise, isn't it?

Every participating party also includes pirates, so how much fun do you think a pirate is have when every person they're pirating just says, "it's not worth it" to their demands? It's just stupid in an RP game that one of the options a trader has when being pirated is letting themselves get killed, and then straight after come flying back into the same system in a "replacement" ship" because they somehow survived. What do you think a trader would do inRP?

As for the balancing, balancing a transport against pirates is like balancing fighters against full prim GBs, it's stupid to make it stronger against what it's meant tobe weak against. What traders are meant to do, and would do inRP because transports ARE weak, is hire escorts.

Yeah I agree with bloogaL, pirates get stiffed because they can't hold up somebody's ship, just the cargo. That's not really fair. There is no sense of loss in this game when a pirate pulls over an empty or a ship full of worthless cargo. That's why I ransom high and if they don't pay I make them remember why they should pay.

I'm not down with traders getting a free pass. And this comes from somebody who currently makes about 40 mil an hour trading. I run THE BEST trade route in the entire game (I guarantee it) and I have to cough up at the absolute maximum 5 mil (value of my cargo) if I ever get pulled over in-RP. Honestly if piracy becomes a serious issue to where losing my ship means something I'd probably try to find a route that would be less pirated (right now there is zero piracy where I run my trade,) making me less money per hour -- hence the tradeoff. I make less per hour but I am safer.

' Wrote:Being that mouse you describe is no fun (or you are a masochist, or - rather likely - you have no clue what it means to fly and roleplay trader as existing, real characters (!) not as "I need money, trade / second" cashmachines at the moment).

While my in-game time is now limited due to real-life, just last week I completed a trade run from:
Omicron Delta (Dabadoru) to Freeport 11, then via Omicron-74, Omega-41, Omega-5, Omega-3, to Cambridge Research Center, Cambridge, then from there via Manchester, Cortez, Coranado, to Pueblo in Baffin, where I picked up a load for delivery back to Freeport-11. All in-RP cargo runs.

Do I trade all the time now? No, not hardly. I don't need to. When I did trade heavily, guess what? Under the old system, it was Rheinland to Bretonia, right through Omega-3 and Omega-7, because I was hauling cargo that was in role-play for what our company did - ship building. I also about twice a week would make a run from New Berlin out to Dabadoru and back. And then the in-RP supply runs to our bases in Sheffield, Shikoku, and Texas.

That's where YOU have no clue, Jack. As I said a long time ago, I made one - single - OORP diamond/niobium run, just to see what all the fuss was. Every OTHER trade run I make with my transport has been in role-play for our faction. (My personal character likes to make trade runs, too - Firefly hauling artifacts to Denver, then food back to Crete. That's where I do something that seems to pass by everyone else here - I use my brains. Rather than take the risk of getting caught for an extra 200 credits per cargo, I take the longer, patient route - avoid the normal pirate pathways, avoid military patrols, and in general act like I'm expecting trouble at any second. No complaints - and I profit while staying in role-play.)

One last thing - you're right, it's a game. But everyone needs to role-play what they're flying, EVEN traders.

Okay, I shouldn't do this, so first thing is I'M SORRY DAB

Quote:Yesterday I held up a trader full of 10 million credits worth of cargo. They were moving Ship Hull Panels or something, and I asked where. When I discovered their destination a bit of quick legwork told me they were heading to a station that granted them 10 million in credits.

If cargo was worth 10 million then we can assume roughly 2000 units at 5000 per. FLcompanion says cheapest possible buy of hull panels is 500 per, so capital costs for 200 units was just below 1 million. You wanted 8 million, meaning his realized profit would have been about 1.1 million. Not even worth finishing the trip for that. He can make better profit buying whatever commodity is sold at the nearest base and finishing the trip.

Of course this depends entirely on your assumption that he was going to sell them at all. If he was feeding a base with repair supplies, then there was no profit incentive on his part at all, and his only incentive was avoiding unnecesary capital expenses. If it cost 1 million to fill his hold, then he could make the trip SEVEN times and still come out ahead over your ridiculous demand of 8 million credits. Simply put, you priced poorly, regardless of how the materials were going to be used, and priced stupidly if they were just going to be used.

Here comes the reality hammer: You got nothing, and you got nothing because you acted stupidly. You tried to bully him into a lose situation, and he took the opportunity to turn it into a lose-lose outcome. Not only that but he actually BEAT YOU INTO AVOIDING FUTURE CONTACT and it only took TWO times for him to do it. He got rid of you for a total cost of 2 millions, when you originally demanded 8, and you didnt even pocket the 2 millions. GOOD WORK HOSS.

Oh but that's not important, its the RP stuffs that matter. Alright what is the cost of your ship because I pray to Eris that somebody pirates you for 1 million less than the replacement cost of your ship and weapons--surely 1 million less than replacement cost is a fair and reasonable incentive inRP. You seem fairly concerned that they are getting a quality experience from the encounters, so surely you agree.

Now go read rule 0.0 again. And quit trying to turn this into a piracy thread.

Thank you

' Wrote:Every participating party also includes pirates, so how much fun do you think a pirate is [...]

Ohhh! So you only get to blow him up as a compensation for your loss of "I cannot do anything with him as I want!". Hard for the pirate to only get the blue message. Oh wait.... you also cause him to lose between 1 and 25 million in cargo worth... Hm, must feel still bad for the pirate. And you made him lose time as he respawns somewhere... hmmm... is that really so bad?

Can't say I feel too much for the "poor pirate" that did not get 100 % of his fun.

And, just by the way: If every trader tells you "kill me", perhaps you could start thinking about your demands? Perhaps part of the error lies with you.

But... as Mods and Admins stated, this is not the course that the thread should move.

I have made my suggestions, explained my point of view in detail. I retreat from this topic, even though there would be so much more to say in return to certain people here... but... nah. See you around.:)

Dunno this argument seems to be a recurring phenomena, and I think it's high time it got fixed. The "pro-trade" side tends to forget that large parts of the "pirate side" trade as well, and are thus faced with the exact same effects as everyone else when in a transport. It would be wrong to conclude that removal of the trader exception helps one "side" over the other in general, whereas it obviously would change things in the specific case when a trader is confronted with pirates/police/vigilantes etc. - he would have to use his skills for something a little bit more tricky than just a simple economic cost/benefit evaluation of the situation. Afterall pilots on trade ships are supposed to be pilots, not space accountants with spreadsheets and a total lack of overview of the dangerous space surrounding them. Trading also tends to be more fun when it doesn't solely consist of "Go to"/"Dock" and credits/minute.

Other games manages having consequences just fine, a lot of us playing this game are adults (at least by date of birth), and really we can handle the challenge. In my eyes this all stems from someone at some point deciding to wrap traders and trade in a bubble of fluffy cotton and now everyone has grown accustomed to trading and traders having special privileges. It's foolish to say that we will endanger "the lifeblood of disco" by opening up to just a shred of consequences for traders - I mean people would still want to buy a base, a cloaking device, a battleship and so on, and for most trading is the only option to get the credits.

Also there are a lot of new profitable trade routes, so it should be easy for everyone (who isn't bound by very strict ID/faction regulations or strict self-imposed RP boundaries) to make millions and millions of credits, even when you can't pass through your most favourite system. It would help creativity amongst traders, and also help distribute players more evenly on the server. I see no reason not to take this step. Whatsoever.

I would like to once again point out that we can mess around with transport balance to make sure that (should traders actually have something to lose when they die) they won't sell their skin cheaply when encountering pirates, either through escape or fighting back.

Also as was pointed out by the post above: this change will also benefit lawfuls which will now be able to attack smugglers as they should, rather than wonder if they can do it within the rules while the smuggler is running for the speed dock point of a base.