A Song of Buff and Nerf

[Teerin]

Giving factions a barge seems to be a good idea

... but ....

It would mainly be helpful for trading factions.

Military factions, like the [LN] for example, wouldn't need one. Any shiny baubles we collect are put onto one of our two Armories, which are Mammoths. As for transporting, the Logistics Corps ( [LN]-LLS- ) find Bisons sufficient for our needs.

Minor independent nations, such as the CR|, wouldn't have much use for barges either. We operate capital warships, three military strike wings (one focused on interception, another on taking out heavies, and the third on guerrilla tactics), and a spec ops squadron (barge =/= stealthy), making us a mostly military faction. But wait! There's the Colonial Movers ( CR|-CM- ), however they're often running dangerous missions throughout hostile territory, and the barge isn't suitable for that. And as with the LN, we already have a storage depot.

Okay so, how about quasilawful (mafia?) groups, Teerin? Well yeah sure the Congress use them, but only really to jump trade Cardamine/Premium Scrap so as to avoid player interaction whilst makin' the big bucks. And though they tend to think of themselves as mafia ... well, never mind, I should keep this post polite (and on-topic). The [UC] however do aim for as much player interaction as possible, especially from within Gallia itself. A barge, though profitable, isn't really a part of our Modus Operandi. When not being mercenaries, we do indeed trade a bunch (~25% of which is smuggling), but a lot of that is through dangerous space and/or asteroid fields, and we also like to be quick. Additionally, the faction has survived two years without even the thought of wanting a barge. And as with the above two cases, we keep our stache mostly on an Aurochs, which is sufficient for our needs.

Other groups I'm in like the [C]ouncil don't trade much, and again wouldn't have much use for it. Can't say for sure about [AI], but the Omicrons are pretty treacherous. Maquis wouldn't have time for one, and the Brigands would prefer pirating from other Barges, not owning one.

-----

So for unique (temporary?) gifts to official factions, you'd really need to base it off which category of group they are before making the offer. Barges work for Corporate factions, but you also have to think about Military, Police, Intelligence, Quasilawful, Autonomous, Revolutionary, Pirate, and Terrorist groups. This page separates most of them accurately by category.


EDIT: This post ended up way longer than I had anticipated

---

---

"You see what your knowledge tells you you're seeing. ... how, what you think the universe is, and how you react to that in everything you do, depends on what you know. And when that knowledge changes, for you, the universe changes. And that is as true for the whole of society as that is for the individual. We all are what we know, today. What we knew yesterday, was different; and so were we."
- James Burke, The Day the Universe Changed (1985)

[Fifty.]

Can't comment anything on balance, since I don't play anymore, but I approve the thread name.

---

[Zen_Mechanics]

Theres a rumor at freeport discovery that ships will be made in such a way that only a selection of them will be able to jump, however - if that aint happening, wouldn't be easier to nerf cargo, buff mobility and get it done? Yeah people will use it to power-trade, as if making money with 5k isn't fast enough, but hey - you don't see me pick credits off a tree, and id rather spend time actually playing then trading to fund something that should already be available to me, Its not enough that we have to work for real? Don't take this the wrong way, but those who think of using the credit "card trick" are probably teenagers who didnt even start college. We don't get younger and time becomes precious.

---

Were fools to make war on our brothers in arms.

[Highland Laddie]

Well, I'm not fan of bases. They're harmful to the mod, they turn joy from the game into mindless grind, lead to frustration, rulebreaking to save your base/destroy hostile outpost. Sure, there are some exceptions from that, but they only confirm general rule about bases. I've seen factions killed by base grind, constant metagaming in order to deliver supplies/catch suppliers, reengaging to protect or destroy base, etc etc. I think [RHA] is the best example how base grind can first make faction stagnant, and then kill it. In the end only one person was supplying it, and I'm sure he hated that ungrateful task. Hessians, from active faction raiding New Berlin/Gamma on daily basis, in big force, first turned into power jumptraders and base grinders, and into just base grinders in the end. Alive and very much active official faction with big indie playerbase cooperating with them was killed by base grind.

Now, if instead they'd just use Barge as stockpile, base grinding wouldn't kill their activity.

Quick counter-point:

PoBs aren't any more the "problem" than Barges are a problem with Jump Trading. The problem is the players who abuse them.

You point out that PoB users often cheat and abuse rules when their base needs supplied or is attacked, but the same abuse can exist when a player using a Barge as storage just F1s out of the game when a hostile/pirate shows up to threaten it.

PoBs could be just as fun & productive part of the game as Barges if, like with the Barge, you put the proper regulations in place to help prevent the abuse, and then you ENFORCE those regulations.

As for the grind part - 2 points to consider. 1) base building/maintaining was always meant to be a group effort...so if you get to the point where it becomes too much of a grind...then you should consider abandoning the base, either via selling it, destroying it, or maybe making an Event around said base's destruction or something FUN. 2) Base maintenance could also be tweaked a bit so that it is less of a grind on players, while still making it a group activity. The grind alone doesn't necessitate its removal from the mod. Otherwise....you could remove all transports, since some grinding is required to purchase one, especially for new players.

[Pavel]

Welp, it passed some time, and I was more away from Disco due to RL reasons. Jumptrading barges and storks were removed from the mod, which is excellent news.



During my time off I toyed with few ideas and thought about interesting thing:


what if transports were to lose their cargo proportionally equal to the loss of health?

A pirate bomber engages stork full of ore. With only 3% of hull points, stork manages to dock at the closest station, but it also means he lost 97% of cargo together with hull.


Of course, this requires new hook magic, I don't know would this be big problem for our server to handle or not, but from gameplay pov, it'd make even cau8 traders think twice before refusing to pay pirate. InRP, this would be quite obvious cargo from damaged/destroyed containers/parts of the hold was destroyed or severly damaged.

There is of course issue of nanobots restoring hull, but I think they shouldn't restore lost cargo - if a SNAC hits transport, cargo from damaged hold is lost.


What do you think?

[Lythrilux]

That's a really good idea. I'm all for any suggestion that makes traders think twice about refusing pirate demands really.
Though, it'd be nicer to see that go hand in hand with a 2x buff on all commodity buy/sell prices.

---

[WesternPeregrine]

Would the cargo be ejected, or destroyed in that action? If it were capable to be ejected because of lack of space, it could change some pirates approach their targets.

If it is just destroyed in accordance to the remaining cargo space, I guess it's another way to provoke losses on the traders who don't comply.

An interesting concept, needs to be explored on its reach and effects.

---

SIGNATURE

Kusari Former Mastermind

========================

| The Kusari Legal Codex |
| Character Profiles | The North Star Bulletin News|

[Blodwyn O'Driscoll]

block entire systems what kills activity there (Dublin and Goldern Coin for example), POBs

Not the topic, but the Coin didn't kill activity in Dublin, and by the way, when the JH was moved out, and coin no longer blockading the hole, the activity didn't get higher or lower.
Dublin's issue has nothing to do with that.


I also remember that the bases blockading o74 did bring a lot of activity ( and drama too ).

---

That is the crux of the matter.
If you aid us, and you aid them, you are the enemy.
If you do not aid them, you are worthless outside of extortion potential.
If you aid us, you will be treated with respect.

Colin H. Breen, of the Molly Republic

[SnakThree]

Pavel, your idea would make armor upgrades for trade ships obsolete. No matter if it is CAU8 or AU1 Stork, pirate would be able to harass traders to such degree that they would lose motivation to trade. As Lane Hacker, I usually give an optional. to yield with 10% hull remaining. If the trader would lose 90% of cargo, that would mean there is no more reason to survive as respawning would be quicker and cheaper.

I want to see people fighting for their survival too, thus the whole reason behind Ageira's CAU8 Bisons that puts a new challenge for criminals.

---

[Lythrilux]

I want to see people fighting for their survival too, thus the whole reason behind Ageira's CAU8 Bisons that puts a new challenge for criminals.

Honestly if I see a cau8 bison, or any transport with such large armour, I tend to just let it go because it's probably more time consuming to shoot it than just moving onto weaker piracy targets.

---