(11-13-2013, 09:08 AM)Timmy Wrote: Dunno about other big unlawful groups, but I certainly agree on the matter of Blood Dragons with Pancakes. Ex Imperial Guards even after being beaten do not have countdown 2000 people. And since generations they would multiply themselfs significantly. Even if Kyoto is only a base, it size is pretty much 1/3 of even the same Manhattan. You can hold at least 100000 people on such thing, imo.
Asteroid base versus planet. If we were to scale the planets and suns realistically, the trade lanes would be less then a thousandth the size they are now. Stations and spacecraft as well. And speeds. You get my point I hope. In order to present the game as something playable, the original developers chose to keep planet very small.
Kyoto may be huge for an asteroid base, but it is still just that, an asteroid with not even enough mass to retain a spherical form through erosion. Think Pluto-sized, if you need actual dimensions. Could a few thousand people live inside? Yes. Could a few thousand people be supplied with the daily necessities considering that a barren asteroid does not by itself support human life? Doubtful. Kyoto houses the military core of the Blood Dragons, it's an HQ. BD sympathisers would be living on worlds such as Honshu and New Tokyo (and to a lesser extent Kyushu, because that's predominantly FA/Samura influenced).
Also, cleaning thread. Further personal insults will result in folk getting a few days off of the forums. Be respectful or take some time off-keyboard folks.
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From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
(11-13-2013, 12:41 AM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: What you forget is that the billions of people on planets are not all military pilots. The people living on planets are working in factories, businesses, etc.
Meanwhile, every single person on one of those unlawful bases is involved in their effort.
Think of fighter ships like fighter jets. They are really expensive. You're not going to have billions of them for everybody sitting on a planet. Having ~7000 unlawfuls in a single gang that are actually in space is quite a significant force.
No matter what, you need people for logistical and other operations.(repairs, medical aid, etc). That is, if we totally exclude any manufacturing and R&D.
As to why in Vanilla numbers weren't as big, that's because pirate factions in vanilla were pirate factions, not pretending to be unbeatable in direct confrontation with House militaries (when on defensive), and pretending to have hundreds of thousands people living on space stations (tremendous strain on a logistical chain) and being capable of waging war on 2 fronts all at same time.
(11-13-2013, 03:21 PM)Coin Wrote: space boat game. realism doesn't apply.
Can I use this quote from you in my thread about full broadside caps?
yes. by all means design, model, hardpoint, polygon and code a broadside-firing capsheep.... and then watch the effort get wasted as no-one uses them as they are extremely vulnerable to, say, someone shooting at them from their long axis.
realism doesnt apply here - the numbers of people are fictional
realism does apply to the broadside boats, as they won't be fictional - the boats will exist and they will die, very very fast, and the effort in their inclusion to the mod will be wasted. Broadside-firing boats only did so as they lacked manoeuvrability due to the fact that they used sails. (but lets make a space version of sid meier's pirates, cos that would be awesome)
(11-13-2013, 01:55 PM)Durandal Wrote: It's a bit ridiculous, yes. I've always placed the larger unlawful groups closer to around 50k - 100k people or so. Though granted, Planets in FL (aside from Gallia) are actually hardly populated at all. I don't think any non Gallic planets go over 1 billion inhabitants.
NL has over 1.5 billion I believe, Leeds had two bil beforete Gauls invaded. I think a planet in Kus has at least close to a billion if not more. But yeah, more official figures for population are needed.
(11-14-2013, 01:01 AM)AeternusDoleo Wrote: Asteroid base versus planet. If we were to scale the planets and suns realistically, the trade lanes would be less then a thousandth the size they are now. Stations and spacecraft as well. And speeds. You get my point I hope. In order to present the game as something playable, the original developers chose to keep planet very small.
Kyoto may be huge for an asteroid base, but it is still just that, an asteroid with not even enough mass to retain a spherical form through erosion. Think Pluto-sized, if you need actual dimensions. Could a few thousand people live inside? Yes. Could a few thousand people be supplied with the daily necessities considering that a barren asteroid does not by itself support human life? Doubtful. Kyoto houses the military core of the Blood Dragons, it's an HQ. BD sympathisers would be living on worlds such as Honshu and New Tokyo (and to a lesser extent Kyushu, because that's predominantly FA/Samura influenced).
Also, cleaning thread. Further personal insults will result in folk getting a few days off of the forums. Be respectful or take some time off-keyboard folks.
Well, A) Dragons are being supplied by GMG as far as I know, with regular shipments of basic commodities they could well maintain a larger population on their base. B) We're not comparing it with a planet the size of Manhattan, not even remotely close. More like a smaller moon, like Phobos for example. Phobos have a terrain in the size of Delaware.
Now, given that fact, and the fact that they base is inside the asteroid, thus utilizing the volume (which is larger than the surface area for rounded shapes (or semi-rounded in this case), size-wise it could well support even a few million people. And remember that the amount of criminals is usually proportional to the amount of the overall population, especially in a society like the Dragons (which is simply the one you are talking about, though this post refers to pirates in general) out of which rarely people leave and only get slight increases in recruitment from the general population at times of crisis.
(11-14-2013, 10:18 AM)Knjaz Wrote: No matter what, you need people for logistical and other operations.(repairs, medical aid, etc). That is, if we totally exclude any manufacturing and R&D.
As to why in Vanilla numbers weren't as big, that's because pirate factions in vanilla were pirate factions, not pretending to be unbeatable in direct confrontation with House militaries (when on defensive), and pretending to have hundreds of thousands people living on space stations (tremendous strain on a logistical chain) and being capable of waging war on 2 fronts all at same time.
Pirates factions in vanilla were also far more realistic compared to the population you had in the game back then. Freelancer universe had 4-5 billion in all of Sirius combined. Nowadays you have 420 million people on a newly funded planet - Gran Canaria, which is more than the amount of peopel living in planet Los Angeles in a core house system.
(11-14-2013, 10:21 AM)Snak3 Wrote: Honestly, is the numbers such big deal?
Far easier to add "unknown" to unlawful bases.
Lawful planets and stations might keep a record on the number of people, but I bet most criminals really don't.
(11-14-2013, 10:50 AM)Coin Wrote: yes. by all means design, model, hardpoint, polygon and code a broadside-firing capsheep.... and then watch the effort get wasted as no-one uses them as they are extremely vulnerable to, say, someone shooting at them from their long axis.
realism doesnt apply here - the numbers of people are fictional
realism does apply to the broadside boats, as they won't be fictional - the boats will exist and they will die, very very fast, and the effort in their inclusion to the mod will be wasted. Broadside-firing boats only did so as they lacked manoeuvrability due to the fact that they used sails. (but lets make a space version of sid meier's pirates, cos that would be awesome)
@OP
'unknown' is a better number
I wouldn't mind unknown as it would make sense with pirate factions who probably don't keep much track after their population count, except in a few specific bases.
And as to why we should care about those numbers - this is an RP server, and the amount of people living in our merry little fictional universe is quite an important piece of lore, which we base our RP about.
(11-14-2013, 04:54 PM)Savas Wrote:
(11-13-2013, 01:55 PM)Durandal Wrote: It's a bit ridiculous, yes. I've always placed the larger unlawful groups closer to around 50k - 100k people or so. Though granted, Planets in FL (aside from Gallia) are actually hardly populated at all. I don't think any non Gallic planets go over 1 billion inhabitants.
NL has over 1.5 billion I believe, Leeds had two bil beforete Gauls invaded. I think a planet in Kus has at least close to a billion if not more. But yeah, more official figures for population are needed.
We really do need to fix those numbers. Since it's either that or that everyone in Sirius became a Zoner mom.